Norm Geisler references TrueFreethinker.com:
Apologeticspress.com's Kyle Butt references TrueFreethinker.com:
On Morality:
Atheism and Rape:
Worldview and Science Examiner
- On the evolution of marriage: “Man + Wives = Concubines”
- On the evolution of marriage: “Man + Brother's Widow (Levirate Marriage)”
- On the evolution of marriage: “Man + Woman - Nuclear Family”
- On the evolution of marriage: on the Bible and traditional marriage
- Are we all God’s children?
- Is evolution a theory about everything or nothing?
- Obama and same-sex marriage: pawns equal votes
- Are liberals liberal?
- On the evolutionary origins of politics: what makes for conservatives & liberal?
- Sexual devolution: conservative and liberal politics
Fitness, Exercise, Bodybuilding, Weightlifting and Workouts
- Product review: Riceplex – “ULTERA” all natural superfood
- Product review: Manitoba Harvest – all natural hemp hearts
- Product review: True Nutrition – energy and endurance supplements
- Product review: Whole World Botanicals – maca superfood
- Product review: NRG-X Labs – unique state of the art supplements
Book navigation
Sample clip of my debate with an
atheist on the issue of morality.
Find the whole debate at this link
Torture, the Hell of Atheism and the "Gentle Pedophile"
Ever the fan of emotive assertions, Dan Barker struck again during his Feb. 12th debate with Kyle Butt (reviewed here):
A threat of violence, which is what Hell is; it's a threat of eternal torture, any system of thought that has that thought in it, that scares the minds of children, who go to bed at night wondering if they're gonna go to Hell, it is a morally bankrupt system.1
I do not know whether to think that Dan Barker is one of the most misinformed celebrity atheists when it comes to the Bible's contents, if he knows better but manipulates it the most, or some combination of these and other factors. Fortunately, it is not my task to discern his thoughts or motivation but it is my task to consider his statements and parse the truth from fallacy.
I have decided to combine a response to the above quote with a response to similar statements made by Prof. Richard Dawkins.
Let us make one thing clear: the Greek word odunao is translated both as torment and torture. Torture denotes the infliction of physical pain, while torment denotes mental anguish. Thus, let us be absolutely clear in understanding that nowhere in the whole Bible is it even hinted at that hell is to be pictured as a Gulag's torture chamber. Neither is it even hinted at that there will be people, or demons, whose job is to inflict physical pain. Neither is satan ever pictured as some sort of king of hell. Rather, he is pictured as one who suffers like the rest, and indeed more so, for it was for him and the fallen angels for whom hell was created (Matthew 25:41). Dan Barker appears glean his understanding of hell from creepy medieval paintings or fallacious fire and brimstone preachers and not from the Bible.
One example of the concept of hell ought suffice:
From the safety and comfort of countries whose societies are based on Christian principles Richard Dawkins made the following narrowly prejudicial statement,
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.2
Now, let us imagine that after dying Richard Dawkins finds out that this God is the one true God. Richard Dawkins has spent a lifetime expressing his hatred of this God. Thus, if God where to force Richard Dawkins into heaven this would be hell for him as he would have to spend eternity with a being whom he finds repulsive in virtually every imaginable way. Thus, God has created a place to which people can go, if he so choose, in order to be done with Him forever.
Richard Dawkins has made the point that religion's real child abuse is its theology.
He mentions that a particular woman was fondled by her parish priest and felt that it was "yuchy." Yet, what really tormented her was the doctrine of hell which tormented "many a night."
Richard Dawkins tells that he, as a young Anglican, was "fondled by the Latin master" which he found to be a "disagreeable sensation…a mixture of embarrassment and skin-crawling revulsion." He states that "As soon as I could wriggle off his knee, I ran to tell my friends and we had a good laugh, our fellowship enhanced by the shared experience of the same sad pedophile." Moreover, he states, "I do not believe that I, or they, suffered lasting, or even temporary damage from this disagreeable physical abuse of power."
He also makes various odd statements regarding power abusing pedophiles such as:
But reports of child abuse cover a multitude of sins, from mild fondling to violent buggery…just because some pedophile assaults are violent and painful, it doesn't mean that all are. A child too young to notice what is happening at the hands of a gentle pedophile will have no difficulty at all in noticing the pain inflicted by a violent one. Phrases like 'predatory monster' are not discriminating enough, and are framed in the light of adult hang-ups.
Perhaps the Freudians of olden days would be better suited to comment on Richard Dawkins' odd statements regarding pedophilia. What we are interested in addressing here is his virtual dismissal of sexual abuse and aggrandizement of doctrinal abuse as he states:
An extreme threat of violence and pain is precisely what the doctrine of hell is. And there is no doubt at all that many children sincerely believe it, often continuing right through adulthood and old age until death finally releases them.
Do take a moment to note that according to atheism death is the great salvation from all of life's wows. Death is the driving force behind all of life's advancements, it is the god of Darwinian-Dawkinsian evolution. As Richard Dawkins has stated, "In nature, the usual selecting agent is direct, stark and simple. It is the grim reaper."3
Certainly some have taken the doctrine of hell far and away from the Bible and have accentuated particular aspects of the symbolic language that is used to describe it such as "fire" and "torture." I have written on various misconceptions of hell in my essay On Hell and Why Would Your Lord Send You To Hell? and, for that matter, with regards to fallacious and dangerous celibacy in The Celibate Priesthood - God's Will and Human Nature.
Thus, to the point, as Richard Dawkins states it:
Only a minority of priests abuse the bodies of the children in their care. But how many priests abuse their minds?...The threat of eternal hell is an extreme example of mental abuse.
At this point we ought to note that according to Dawkinsian style logic, evils done in the name of "religion" (whatever "religion" may mean) discredit religion but good done in its name do not accredit it. The Dawkinsian tactic, and that of many others such as Sam Harris, is to claim that evil done in the name of religion discredits the religion. Thus, they tirelessly point out these evils. How they determine what is "evil" is another matter entirely. Upon it being pointed out that they are only looking at one side of the issue by not mentioning the enumerable acts of charity done in the name of religion they simply retort with words to the effect of, "Good people would have done that anyway but religion is what causes good people to do evil" (whatever "good" and "evil" may be). Thus, their comments are logically fallacious on many levels.
Now, getting to the main point which is that torment of the mental/psychological nature are not unique to religious upbringing. This mere fact discredits Dan Barker's and Prof. Richard Dawkins' assertion that a religion that preaches hell is therefore discredited.
Presuppositionally, I would state that the doctrine of hell is about as abusive as a doctor telling you that you have a terminal disease that will eat away at your body for decades on end and cause chronic and intolerable pain-unless, that is, you simply take a medicine that is guaranteed to cure you. Bother Dan Barker and Richard Dawkins do make some valid points and preachers of hell ought to handle the subject with accuracy and love and we should certainly empathize with those who have been needlessly tormented.
I wish to end this essay by what prompted me to write it in the first place and that is by sharing an anecdote.
I must admit that I too have similar experiences of being raise in sheer terror.
I was raised in a 100% secular household by an atheist and an agnostic and I believed that when I died I would simply disappear, just altogether cease to be.
This though was so terrifying that from my earliest childhood memory I recall crying to myself in utter despair.
This belief also made me horribly sad when, for example, my mother had to do something as menial as going to the market, what if she died before getting back home? I wanted my mommy.
It was horrific I assure you and, by the way, my older brother, in typical older brother style, played upon my fears and tormented me by doing things such as looking out of the window and saying things like, "Look! Mom is laying dead on the sidewalk!"
I became so afraid of the dark that I used to tie a string around the light switch, then get in bed under my covers and finally pull the string in order to switch the lights off.
I recall that when I was 18 years old I was at work and had to run into the bathroom to lock myself in the toilet stall because I was so consumed with despair. Imagine, a man crying to himself like a little child.
This is just my sad story of being mentally abused and psychologically scarred by being raised a secular environment.
Ultimately, I suppose that the argument from terror fails since it can be applied to theism and atheist as I can, sadly, attest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Incidentally, in case you are unempathetic and unsympathetic enough to attempt to turn this true story against be, as a theist, and make some sort of claim about my becoming a theist due to fear of death or some such thing allow me to note that I ended up becoming 100% comfortable with death and not in the least bit afraid of it long before I came to believe what I now believe.
I did, by the way, come literally within six inches of being decapitated once-but that is another story.
- 1. WorldNow and WISTV, USC Students Debate Existence of God on Darwin's Birthday, Feb 12, 2009
- 2. Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion (Boston & New York: Houghton Mifflin Co., 2006), p. 31
- 3. WorldNow and WISTV, USC Students Debate Existence of God on Darwin's Birthday, Feb 12, 2009
This essay is copyrighted by Mariano Grinbank of the website "True Free Thinker" at www.truefreethinker.com.
It may be republished in part or in its entirety on websites, blogs, or any print media for whatever purpose (in agreement or in order to criticize it) only as long as the following conditions are met:
- Give credit to Mariano Grinbank of the website "True Free Thinker" and provide the url: www.truefreethinker.com/articles/torture-hell-atheism-and-gentle-pedophile.
- Inform me as to where it is being reproduced via the comments section or use the Trackback url: http://www.truefreethinker/trackback/583
Search
Tags
- William Lane Craig – South Africa Debates, part 1: vs. Yusuf Islam on “Identifying Jesus: Is He Man or both God and Man?”
- Dan Barker and the Alien Rape Voyeurs, part 4 of 7
- Dan Barker and the Alien Rape Voyeurs, part 7 of 7
- Dan Barker and the Alien Rape Voyeurs, part 6 of 7
- Dan Barker and the Alien Rape Voyeurs, part 5 of 7
TFT Content:
CHRISTIANITY
Christianity
Apologetics
Bible
God - Theology
Jesus
Miracles
Inspirational
Unbelievers Compliment Christianity
ATHEISM
Atheism
New Atheists
Project-Answering Atheism
-------------
Richard Dawkins
Sam Harris
Christopher Hitchens
Dan Barker
Daniel Dennett
Bart Ehrman
Bill Maher
PZ Myers
Quentin Smith
Michael Shermer
John Loftus
Carl Sagan
-------------
Atheism’s Public Relations Problems
Atheist Bus Ads and Billboards
Atheist Child Rearing
-------------
American Atheists
American Humanist Association
ExChristian.Net
PositiveAtheism.org
Evilbible.com
Science Club of Long Island
Skeptic’s Annotated Bible
Capella's Guide to Atheism
-------------
The BOBA Digest
The Wedgie Document
RELIGIONS
Judaism (Rabbinic, Messianic, etc.)
Baha'i
Islam
Jehovah's Witnesses
Mormonism
Catholicism
Unitarian Universalism
Misc. Religions
MISC.
Adolf Hitler / Nazism / Communism
-------------
Morality / Ethics
Rape
Meaning and Purpose
Homosexuality
-------------
Science
Intelligent Design
Cosmology
Evolution
-------------
Da Vinci Code / Angels and Demons / Templars, etc.
Gospel of Judas
The Lost Tomb of Jesus
Pop Culture and Politics
-------------
William Lane Craig
Francis Collins
RESOURCES
Fitness
Audio
Books
TFT essay "Books"
Debate
Links
Video
Find it Fast - Fast Facts
Visuals - Illustrations and Photos
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Look for us at the Internet Directory
Similar
- Friedrich Nietzsche Nails Richard Dawkins
- Friedrich Nietzsche Nails the Freedom From Religion Foundation
- Atheism and Creation Ministries International - Preparatoria
- Find it Fast - Fast Facts: Some celebrity New Atheists who positively affirm God’s non-existence…
- Atheism and Science - Is There a Relation?, part 3 - On the Difference Between Science and Philosophy: Richard Dawkins
Article Tags (Admin)
- Abortion (15)
- Agnostic (19)
- Bertrand Russell (11)
- Brights (10)
- Charles Darwin (85)
- Abraham (2)
- Adolf Hitler (37)
- Albert Einstein (5)
- Alfred Russel Wallace (2)
- Allah (4)
- Altruism (6)
- Amish (5)
- Anthropic Principle (3)
- Apocrypha (6)
- Apologetics (69)
- Ireneus (14)
- Isaac (2)
- Isaiah 9 (4)
- Ishmael (2)
- James Randi (7)
- James Von Brunn (3)
- James White (10)
- Journal of Women's Mysteries (1)
- Lost Tomb of Jesus (11)
- Louis Appignani (1)
- Mary Magdalene (4)
- Michael Behe (1)
- Michael Shermer (11)
- Miracles (13)
- Monotheism (2)
- Morality (66)
- National Bible Week (8)
- memra (5)
- multiverse (6)
- 20/20 (1)
- 2012 (1)
- A Catholic Response (1)
- A Gift For Muslim Couple (0)
- A. C. Grayling (0)
- ABC (1)
- ABC broadcasting (1)
- AHA (1)
- Aaron Goerner (0)
- About.com (1)
- Abstinence (0)
- Al Stefanelli (2)
- Alan Schreck (2)
- Alfred McBride (1)
- Alien Intrusion (1)
- Alpha and Omega Ministries (2)
- Am I a Monkey? (1)
- Ambulocetus Natans (1)
- American Atheists (7)
- American Humanist Association (3)
- American Humanists Association (1)
- Anders Behring Breivik (1)
- Anne Nicol Gaylor (1)
- Annie Laurie Gaylor (2)
- Anthony Horvath (0)
- Anthony Wilhelm (1)
- Apologetics Press (0)
- Apology (1)
- Are Mormons Christians? (1)
- Ariane Sherine (1)
- Arizona Atheist (1)
- Arsenio Hall (1)
- Athanatos (3)
- Athanatos Academy of Apologetics (0)
- Athanatos Online Academy of Apologetics (1)
- Atheism (88)
- Atheism and education (0)
- Atheism and education intelligence (0)
- Atheism and intelligence (0)
- Atheism t-shirts (0)
- Atheist t-shirts (0)
- Aubrey O'Day (1)
- Austin Cline (2)
- BBC (2)
- Baptism (3)
- Barack Obama (11)
- Barak Obama (2)
- Bart Ehrman (4)
- Belief in Evolution Boils Down to a Gut Feeling (0)
- Benito Mussolini (1)
- Benny Hinn (0)
- Beyond Good and Evil (0)
- Bible (34)
- Bill Cosby on Noah (0)
- Bill Maher (2)
- Bill O'Reilly (0)
- Biological Information: New Perspectives (0)
- Blaise Pascal (1)
- Book One (0)
- Boris Talantov (1)
- Bram Stoker (0)
- Breaking the Spell (1)
- British Humanist Association (1)
- Bruce L. Gordon (0)
- Bruce Ware (2)
- Buddah (0)
- Buddha (3)
- Burning Down the Shack (0)
- C S Lewis (6)
- CMI (1)
- Capella's Guide to Atheism (1)
- Carl Sagan (7)
- Cat Stevens (12)
- Catechism of the Catholic Church (1)
- Cee Lo Green (0)
- Celebrity Apprentice (1)
- Charles Capps (0)
- Chopra (1)
- Christ myth (1)
- Christian Apologetics (1)
- Christian Science (3)
- Christian Science and the Book of Mrs. Eddy (1)
- Christian fundamentalist (0)
- Christiane Amanpour (0)
- Christianity (26)
- Christmas (4)
- Christopher J. H. Wright (1)
- Collateral (0)
- Columbine High School (1)
- Comedy Central (1)
- Communism (7)
- Confessions (1)
- Confucius (0)
- Conservative (0)
- Constantine (3)
- Cosmogony (2)
- Cosmology (22)
- Creation Ministries International (4)
- Creationism (16)
- Criminal Minds (1)
- Cult of Personality (2)
- DNA (10)
- Daheshism (1)
- Dali Lama (1)
- Dan Brown (18)
- Daniel Dennett (39)
- Darth Vader (1)
- Darwin's Dilemma (5)
- Dave Silverman (1)
- David Ludwig (1)
- David Wolpe (1)
- Debates (12)
- Decalogue (1)
- Deepak (1)
- Defending the Ressurrection (0)
- Diane Sawyer (1)
- Didache (2)
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer (1)
- Dilbert (2)
- Discovery Channel (11)
- Discovery Institute (8)
- Disease (0)
- Divinity of Doubt: The God Question (1)
- Do Liberals Atheists Have Higher IQs? (0)
- Does God Have a Future (1)
- Does the Universe Have a Purpose (1)
- Don Stefano Gobbi (1)
- Donald Trump (1)
- Don’t ask don’t tell (1)
- Douglas Geivett (1)
- Dr. Seuss (0)
- Dracula (0)
- Early Church Fathers (6)
- Edd Doerr (1)
- Edgar Andrews (1)
- Edward Gibbon (1)
- Elaine Howard Ecklund (0)
- Elevatorgate (0)
- Elijah Muhammad (1)
- End of Faith (13)
- Eric Metaxas (1)
- Erik J. Wielenberg (1)
- Ernest Holmes (14)
- Ethics (60)
- Eucharist (4)
- Eugenics and Other Evils (1)
- Eugenie Scott (1)
- Eusebius of Caesarea (1)
- Eusebius’ History of the Christian Church (1)
- Evil (2)
- Evil Bible (9)
- Evolutionary Argument Against Materialism (1)
- ExChristian.Net (2)
- Examiner (2)
- Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (2)
- Ezekiel (0)
- FFRF (1)
- Faith of Millions (1)
- Faith schools (0)
- False Prophets (1)
- Fatima (5)
- Fatima Crusader (6)
- Feeling of Certainty: Uncovering a Missing Link Between Knowledge and Acceptance of Evolution (0)
- Find it Fast - Fast Facts (6)
- Flavius Josephus (3)
- Flying Spaghetti Monster (6)
- Fossil (2)
- Four Horsemen (13)
- Foxe’s Book of Martyrs (0)
- Fr. Nicholas Gruner (1)
- Francis Collins (1)
- Francis Crick (1)
- Francisco Ayala (1)
- Frederick K.C. Price (0)
- Freedom From Religion Foundation (44)
- Freethinker (33)
- Freethought (4)
- Friedrich Engels (1)
- G K Chesterton (2)
- G. K. Chesterton (4)
- GK Chesterton (3)
- Galileo (1)
- Gallup (0)
- Garth Brooks (1)
- Gary Bates (1)
- Gary Wolf (2)
- Genesis 18 (5)
- George Washington (1)
- Gigantoraptor (1)
- Giles Fraser (0)
- Gleason Archer (1)
- Glenn Beck (5)
- Gnosticism (12)
- God Delusion (14)
- God still loves you (1)
- Golden Rule (0)
- Good Christian (1)
- Good Samaritan (1)
- Gordon Ramsay (0)
- Gospel Of Thomas (0)
- Gospel of Jesus (1)
- Gospel of Judas (9)
- Gov. Rick Perry (1)
- Gregory Paul (1)
- Hadith (4)
- Hamza Kashgari (1)
- Harold Camping (1)
- Harry McCall (1)
- HealthDay (0)
- Hegel (14)
- Hell (6)
- Hellboy (1)
- Hell’s Kitchen (0)
- Henotheism (2)
- Heretics (2)
- Hermeneutics (26)
- Hillary Clinton (1)
- Historical Jesus (6)
- Hollywood (0)
- Holocaust (18)
- Holy War: Should Americans Fear Islam? (0)
- Homosexuality (27)
- Horus (1)
- Humanism (3)
- Humanistic (1)
- Idara Impex in New Delhi India (0)
- Illustra Media (1)
- Imagine (0)
- Imagine religion (1)
- In Defense of Non-Natural (1)
- In Good We Trust (1)
- Inanna (1)
- Inc. (1)
- Indoctrination (0)
- Indulgences (1)
- Infancy Gospel Of Thomas (0)
- Inquisition (1)
- Institutes of the Christian Religion (0)
- Intelligent Design (24)
- International Holocaust Remembrance Day (0)
- Internet Infidels (1)
- Invisible Pink Unicorns (4)
- Ipsos Mori (2)
- Iran (0)
- Irenaeus (1)
- Is Barack Obama a Muslim? (1)
- Is God Just a Human Invention? (0)
- Is education the only antidote to religion? Richard Dawkins says yes (0)
- Is the Qur'an the Word of God? (0)
- Isaac Asimov (2)
- Isaiah 53 (1)
- Islam: Questions and Answers (1)
- J P Holding (2)
- J. P. Holding (0)
- JAMA (1)
- James De Young (0)
- James E. Talmage (0)
- James Jay Lee (1)
- James Watson (1)
- Jamie Foxx (0)
- Jean Houston (1)
- Jeff Durbin (1)
- Jehovah's Witnesses (6)
- Jehovah’s Witnesses (1)
- Jerry Coyne (4)
- Jerry Coyne and Sam Harris Continue reading on Examiner.com Free will (0)
- Jerry Coyne and Sam Harris - National Worldview and Science | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/worldview-and-science-in-national/free-will-atheism-dualism-massimo-pigliucci-jerry-coyne-and-sam-harris#ixzz1opmL2mF2 (0)
- Jerusalem (1)
- Jesus (37)
- Jesus of Nazareth (0)
- Jewish (7)
- Jewish Christians (0)
- Jewish Journal (2)
- Jihad Watch (1)
- John A. O′Brien (1)
- John Bunyan (1)
- John C. Sanford (0)
- John Calvin (1)
- John Foxe (0)
- John Gribbin (1)
- John J. May (1)
- John Lennon (1)
- John Lennox (9)
- John Loftus (9)
- John Ortberg (1)
- Jonathan Edwards (1)
- Jonathan Morrow (0)
- Jonathan Sarfati (1)
- Jorge Cham (0)
- Joseph Smith or the sword! (1)
- Josh McDowell (3)
- Josh Timonen (1)
- Journal of Research in Science Teaching (0)
- Journal of the American Medical Association (1)
- Juan Williams (0)
- Judaism (61)
- Justin Martyr (1)
- Karl Keating (4)
- Keith Parsons (2)
- Kenneth Copeland (0)
- Kenneth Hagin (0)
- King James Bible Trust (0)
- Kirk Cameron (1)
- Krishna (0)
- Kyle Butt (0)
- Lady Gaga (1)
- Last Days (1)
- Laura Ingraham (0)
- Le Centre Pour l'Enquête (0)
- Lee Aronsohn (2)
- Lee Strobel (2)
- Leonard Mlodinow (1)
- Leonardo Dicaprio (0)
- Levirate Marriage (1)
- Lewis Wolpert (2)
- Lindsey Murtagh (1)
- Live Science (0)
- Lord’s supper (1)
- Losing Our Religion (1)
- Louis Farrakhan (1)
- Louise Antony (0)
- Lucy (1)
- M-Theory (1)
- Maccabees (0)
- Mao Zedong (1)
- Mariolatry (19)
- Mariology (1)
- Mark Miravalle (1)
- Mark Paredes (2)
- Mark Thompson (0)
- Mark Twain (1)
- Martin Niemöller (1)
- Mary (21)
- Mary Baker Eddy (2)
- Maryolatry (1)
- Maryology (28)
- Massimo Pigliucci (4)
- Matt Ridley (1)
- Matthew Chapman (0)
- Maulavi Ashraf Ali Thanvi (0)
- Messiah (77)
- Messianic Jews (0)
- Messianic Judaism (76)
- Michael J. Behe (0)
- Michael Licona (0)
- Michael Ruse (3)
- Midwest Atheist (3)
- Militant Atheist (1)
- Militant Christian (1)
- Militant Muslim (1)
- Milk Jug (0)
- Minoan eruption (1)
- Misquoting Jesus (4)
- Mitch Daniels (2)
- Mitt Romney (0)
- Mohammad (14)
- Morality / Ethics (2)
- Morality: Natural or Supernatural? (1)
- Morgan Spurlock (1)
- Mormon (12)
- Mormonism (16)
- Morris Cerullo (0)
- Moses (5)
- Mother Teresa (1)
- Mother Teresa stamp (1)
- Muhammad (18)
- Muslim (29)
- Muslims (0)
- Mysticism (0)
- Mythras (1)
- NPR (0)
- Nancy Pelosi (3)
- Nation of Islam (1)
- National Atheist Party (1)
- Native American (0)
- Natural born atheist (0)
- Natural born theist (0)
- Nazi (7)
- Nazism (17)
- Necromancy (1)
- Neuroscience (4)
- New Age (23)
- New Humanist (1)
- New Testament (5)
- New World Order (3)
- Nicholas Gruner (3)
- Nicki Minaj (1)
- Niko Alm (0)
- Non-Theistic Moral Realism (1)
- Nuclear Family (1)
- Obesity (1)
- Occult (1)
- Oklahoma City bombing (0)
- Old Testament (1)
- Oleg Dei (8)
- Oprah Winfrey (9)
- Orthodoxy (0)
- Osama bin Ladin (1)
- Our Lady of Fatima (4)
- Our Lady of Fortune (1)
- Our Lady of Quito (1)
- PZ Myers (20)
- Pale Blue Dot (1)
- Pandora’s Box (0)
- Pandorum (1)
- Pantheism (2)
- Pastafarian (0)
- Paul Billheimer (0)
- Paul Davies (1)
- Paul Diamond (1)
- Penn & Teller (0)
- Penn Jillette (6)
- Penn and Teller (5)
- Pensées (0)
- Peter Hitchens (0)
- Peter Sissons (0)
- Phil Zuckerman (1)
- Philip J. Sampson (1)
- Philosophy (98)
- Planet of the Apes (1)
- Politically Correct (1)
- Polycarp (1)
- Pope (2)
- Pro-abortion (0)
- Problem of Evil (16)
- Psalm 22 (4)
- Qur'an (23)
- Qur′an (2)
- RSS feed (0)
- Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan (1)
- Racism (1)
- Rape (15)
- Rational Response Squad (0)
- Rationalism (6)
- Ravi Zachariahs (2)
- Ravi Zacharias (2)
- Raymond E. Brown (1)
- Reason Rally (2)
- Reginald Finley (7)
- Reiki (0)
- Religious and Social Attitudes of UK Christians in 2011 (1)
- Religulous (3)
- Rich Perry (0)
- Richard Carrier (2)
- Richard Dawkins (175)
- Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science (1)
- Richard Fisher (1)
- Richard Lewontin (2)
- Ricky Gervais (4)
- Rise of the Planet of the Apes (1)
- Robert A. Macdonald (1)
- Robert J. Marks II (0)
- Robert Jeffress (0)
- Robert Spencer (1)
- Robert Sungenis (2)
- Robert Wilson (0)
- Rock Beyond Belief (0)
- Rodney Stark (7)
- Roman Catholic (0)
- Ron Rhodes (5)
- Rosicrucian Fellowship (0)
- S. E. Cupp (1)
- Sai Baba (0)
- Saint Augustine of Hippo (1)
- Saint John Bosco (1)
- Saint Thomas Aquinas (2)
- Saints (1)
- Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani (0)
- Salman Rushdie (18)
- Sam Harris (79)
- Same Sex Marriage (2)
- Santa (1)
- Santa Clause (0)
- Santa Syndrome (3)
- Santorini (1)
- Saudi Arabia (1)
- Scarlet Letter (0)
- Schopenhauer (14)
- Science (153)
- Science Club of Long Island (7)
- Science of Mind (15)
- Science vs. Religion What Scientists Really Think (0)
- Scienceblogs (1)
- Sean McDowell (2)
- Seattle Atheists (4)
- Second Comming (0)
- Secular Humanism (21)
- Secular beliefs (0)
- Shattering the Christ Myth (1)
- Shiite (13)
- Shutter Island (0)
- Siddhartha Gautama (0)
- Signature in the Cell (4)
- Signature of Controversy (4)
- Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God (1)
- Skeptic Chick (0)
- Skepticism (29)
- Slavery (4)
- Smallville (1)
- Sola Ecclesia (1)
- Soren Kierkegaard (1)
- Springer International Science Technology Medicine (0)
- Stephen Hawking (2)
- Stephen Jay Gould (3)
- Stephen Meyer (5)
- Subordinationism (1)
- Subscribe (0)
- Summa Theologica (2)
- Sun Myung Moon (0)
- Suni (13)
- Sye Ten Bruggencate (0)
- Tanakh (70)
- Tarek Fatah (0)
- Tekton (0)
- Tell me why (2)
- Ten Commandments (13)
- Terra Nova (0)
- Terrorism (2)
- Terry Jones (2)
- Terry Nichols (0)
- The Antiquities of the Jews (1)
- The Atheist's Guide to Christmas (1)
- The Bulletproof Monk (1)
- The Centre for Inquiry (0)
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (10)
- The Communist Manifesto (1)
- The Doctrine of Fascism (1)
- The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians (1)
- The Fatima Crusader (2)
- The God I Don’t Understand (1)
- The Grand Design (1)
- The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution (2)
- The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1)
- The Joyful Wisdom (0)
- The Ledge (0)
- The Liberal Media's Attack on Christianity (1)
- The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nation (1)
- The Moral Landscape (2)
- The Origin of Specious Nonsense (1)
- The Pilgrim’s Progress (1)
- The Story of Mormonism (0)
- The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (1)
- The Wars of the Jews (0)
- TheAmazingAtheist (1)
- Theism (12)
- Theology (28)
- Thera eruption (1)
- Thinking of Answers Questions in the Philosophy of Everyday Life (0)
- Thira (1)
- Thomas Kreig (1)
- Thomas Krieg (1)
- Thus Spake Zarathustra (0)
- Tibet (1)
- Timothy McVeigh (3)
- Tom Cruise (0)
- Torah (72)
- Transubstantiation (1)
- Transubstantiation. (0)
- Trinity (10)
- True Reason (2)
- Two and a Half Men (2)
- UFO (3)
- UK Christians (0)
- US Army (0)
- Ubermensch (2)
- Unification Church (0)
- Unitarian Universalism (0)
- Unitarian Universalist (9)
- United Church of Christ (0)
- United Kingdom High Court (1)
- Unity School of Christianity (0)
- Universism (1)
- Vatican (1)
- Vatican Council II (1)
- Vincent Bugliosi (1)
- Visuals - Illustrations and Photos (1)
- Vlad the Impaler (0)
- Voltaire (14)
- Vox Day (5)
- Walter Cronkite (1)
- Walter Martin (1)
- Walter Sinnott-Armstron (1)
- Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden (1)
- Who Designed the Designer (0)
- Who Made God? Searching for a Theory of Everything (1)
- Why Won’t God Heal Amputees? (3)
- William A. Dembski (0)
- William Lane Craig (33)
- Wired Magazine (2)
- Word Faith (0)
- Yom Hashoah (0)
- YouTube Bible project (0)
- Yusuf Islam (14)
- Zarathushtra (1)
- Zarathustra (0)
- Zoroaster (2)
- Zorro (1)
- a Christian (0)
- agnosticism (0)
- aliens (1)
- all God’s children (1)
- all religions true (0)
- anostic (0)
- anti-Semitism (4)
- ape man (1)
- apple (1)
- archaeology (11)
- assumption (4)
- atheism college (2)
- atheism t-shirt (1)
- atheist (2)
- atheist symbols (1)
- atheist t-shirt (1)
- athiesm symbols (1)
- audio (0)
- audio book (44)
- audio books (3)
- austria (0)
- baha'i (14)
- biblia (1)
- big bang theory (1)
- birth rate (1)
- blacklisting (0)
- books (11)
- brigham young (10)
- buddhism (6)
- bus ads (3)
- camp quest (6)
- canaanites (1)
- catechism (1)
- celebrity news (0)
- cells (1)
- censorship (2)
- charity (3)
- child rearing (1)
- childhood obesity (1)
- children of God (1)
- college (3)
- college groups (2)
- comics (0)
- common ancestor (1)
- confession (1)
- conservapedia (1)
- conspiracy (0)
- creation science (2)
- cult (0)
- cults (2)
- dark ages (2)
- darwin (1)
- death bed (0)
- debate (20)
- deluge (0)
- disapproves of homosexuality: shocking news (0)
- diversity Pilgrim High School (0)
- donkey (1)
- dualism (4)
- e-book (0)
- end times (2)
- eschatology (2)
- evidence (1)
- evilbible.com (17)
- evils of christmas (1)
- evolution of marriage (0)
- evolution of marriage (1)
- evolution of marriage (1)
- fast food (1)
- fatwa (7)
- fine tuning (0)
- fitness (1)
- forensic science (1)
- fr (1)
- free will (3)
- fundamental Christian (0)
- gay (1)
- gay lesbian (0)
- genocide (1)
- god (6)
- ground zero mosque (3)
- hard science (1)
- hardball (1)
- hate speech (0)
- hero worship (2)
- hinduism (12)
- history (3)
- history of atheism (1)
- homosexual (1)
- iPhone (1)
- iSlam Muhammad (1)
- imagine no religion (0)
- immaculate conception (5)
- imo Pigliucci (1)
- inception movie (1)
- intelligence studies (0)
- intersession (1)
- islam (11)
- james cameron (11)
- joseph smith (13)
- karma (1)
- killing (0)
- koran (16)
- last supper (2)
- liberal (2)
- liberalism (1)
- logic (7)
- logical fallacies (1)
- lost symbol (1)
- make sure of all things (0)
- manuscript (2)
- marijuana (1)
- marriage = (1)
- materialism (0)
- matzoh (1)
- media (0)
- meme (0)
- memes (1)
- metamorphosis (1)
- metaphysics (1)
- mind (1)
- misogynism (0)
- misogyny (1)
- moroni (10)
- mosaic authorship (1)
- movies (3)
- murder (0)
- my name is earl (1)
- new atheist (2)
- new atheists (9)
- no religion too (0)
- occupy Wall Street (0)
- origin of life (0)
- origins (0)
- orthodox (7)
- our lady of guadalupe (3)
- paleoanthropology (2)
- panantheism (1)
- pantheon (1)
- papacy (0)
- parasite (1)
- passover (2)
- planned parenthood (1)
- politics (2)
- polygamy (1)
- polytheism (2)
- pop-culture and politics (1)
- positive atheism (1)
- positiveatheism.org (8)
- prayer (2)
- prayer for the dead (0)
- predistination (1)
- priori (3)
- pro-choice (0)
- pro-life (0)
- product reviews (2)
- propaganda (2)
- prophecy (13)
- prophet (16)
- protestant reformation (1)
- proxy baptism for the dead (0)
- psychology (1)
- public relations (1)
- purgatory (1)
- pyramid (1)
- quotes (1)
- quran (1)
- rationalists (1)
- rationalwiki (1)
- reading list (2)
- real presence (1)
- reason (1)
- reductio ad Nazium (1)
- reductionism (4)
- reformation (1)
- religion (32)
- religious science (15)
- religious violence (2)
- religious wars (2)
- replacement theology (1)
- resurrection (9)
- robert jastrow (1)
- rosary (3)
- sacrament (1)
- same-sex marriage (3)
- scapular (4)
- second coming (0)
- secularism (2)
- sex (0)
- sexism (3)
- sexual revolution (1)
- sexuality (2)
- shockawegod (1)
- shockofgod (3)
- soft science (1)
- sola scriptura (1)
- soviet (1)
- spirituality (44)
- suffering servant (1)
- sufi (13)
- superman (1)
- t-shirts (0)
- the Doland (1)
- theodicy (2)
- theory of evolution (10)
- thermodynamics (1)
- tolerance (2)
- traditional family values (0)
- traditional marriage (0)
- tv show (0)
- unicorns (0)
- universe (3)
- university (3)
- vampire (0)
- van gogh (0)
- war on Christmas (2)
- watchtower (1)
- what is truth (1)
- world religions (2)
- zombie Jesus (1)
- Naturalism (7)
- natural selection (2)
- Christopher Hitchens (53)
- Cliff Walker (18)
- Dan Barker (91)
- Irreligion (1)
- Islam (141)
- Jehovah's Witnesses (4)
- Kabbalah (5)
- Krishna (12)
- Arno Penzias (1)
- book review (2)
- Christian Science (1)
- Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (24)
- Cults (3)
- Deism (1)
- Edwin Hubble (1)
- Emerging Church (1)
- Hare Krishna (10)
- Hinduism (13)
- New Atheist (180)
- oneness (1)
- pop culture (8)
- Positive Atheism (20)
- postmodernism (1)
- Religious Science (15)
- Roman Catholicism (49)
- Scientology (1)
- suffering (2)
- Trepanning (1)
- Unitarian Universalist (10)
- Wicca (1)
- Bible (512)
- Jesus (461)
- Judaism2 (74)
- Christianity2 (320)
- infidel (0)
- Anglican (1)
- Occam's Razor (2)
- Methodology (1)
- Bill Honsberger (1)
- Cannon (0)
- ritual sacrifice (0)
- Charles Templeton (1)
- home school (0)
- Cal Thomas (0)
- Coelacanth (0)
- Apostle Paul (1)
- Reasonable Faith (0)
- Tim Staples (0)
- celibacy (0)
- priests (0)
- Real Clear Religion (1)
- Infant Baptism (1)
- book of mormon (0)
- BOBA (0)
- Philip Johnson (1)
- Some notes on Skepticism (1)
- Nicholas Humphrey (3)
- Flanimals (1)
- harry poter (0)
- eugenics (1)
- John Horgan (0)
- Eshim (5)
- Beyond Interfaith (5)
- Psychoneuroimmunology (1)
- Neurotheologians (1)
- Near-Death Experiences (1)
- Brad Pitt (0)
- Joe Scarborough (0)
- Apatheism (1)
- 5-Minute Apologetics for Today: 365 Quick Answers to Key Questions (1)
- Kreeft (0)
- Nica Lalli (0)
- Atheist Community of Topeka (0)
- Metroplex Atheists (3)
- Rob Sherman (0)
- Atheist Alliance International (0)
- Margaret Downey (0)
- new york times (3)
- Quentin Smith (2)
- B. C. Johnson (0)
- William Provine (0)
- provine (0)
- CSICOP (0)
- Rochus Boerner (2)
- New York City Atheists (0)
- Swedish Humanist Association (0)
- Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign (2)
- Sourcebook Project (1)
- soulforce (21)
- HIV AIDS (21)
- Mel White (21)
- Debunking Christianity (2)
- Greg Bahnsen (1)
- Karen Armstrong (1)
- Purpose (1)
- Scientific American (2)
- RNA (1)
- johan horgan (1)
- MIT (1)
- Missing Link (1)
- ritual human sacrifice (6)
- Human Sacrifice (6)
- Westcott and Hort (1)
- women (1)
- Wayne Dyer (0)
- tao (1)
- Rick Warren (0)
- Gene Robinson (1)
- Octuplets Mom (0)
- Nadya Suleman (0)
- Sean Penn (0)
- Oscars (0)
- Dustin Lance Black (0)
- Carrie Prejean (0)
- Perez Hilton (0)
- Pope Benedict XVI (1)
- Wicca (0)
- Starhawk (1)
- Goddess (1)
- Beltane (1)
- Barbara Ehrenreich (1)
- david letterman (1)
- sarah palin (1)
- New Muslim Cool (1)
- Hamza Perez (1)
- Inspirational (0)
- presuppositionalism (1)
- Capital Punishment (4)
- diversity (0)
- Camille Paglia (0)
- Peter Kirby (0)
- michael martin (1)
- Toledoth Yeshu (1)
- Ockam's Razor (0)
- Frank R. Zindler (0)
- Frank Zindler (1)
- omnipotence (0)
- Omnipresence (2)
- Omniscience (1)
- Relavitism (22)
- priest (0)
- R.C. Sproul (1)
- The Book of Eli (1)
- Holy Spirit (2)
- Shumley Boteach (0)
- Rabbi (0)
- Boteach (0)
- Alister McGrath (8)
- pedophilia (0)
- alan watts (1)
- A. J. Jacobs (1)
- Greg Epstein (1)
- Tiger Woods (1)
- Brit Hume (1)
- Eckhart Tolle (10)
- doxology (1)
- Porn For Bibles (1)
- Oklahoma City Federal Building (0)
- Sigmud Freud (0)
- born atheist (0)
- The National Secular Society (1)
- John Lennon airport (1)
- Harry Taylor (1)
- government (0)
- USA (0)
- Fred Phelps (1)
- Srila Prabhupada (10)
- Krishna consciousness (9)
- hare Krishna (9)
- Nathan Parker (10)
- natural laws (1)
- Fred Hoyle (1)
- Ted Haggard (2)
- Larry King (2)
- Jennifer Knapp (2)
- CNN (2)
- Bob Botsford (2)
- Elton John (1)
- Lost Years (1)
- William Dembski (1)
- Jonathan Witt (1)
- idolatry (2)
- Pslams (1)
- noah's ark (1)
- God is Great (0)
- Allahu Akbar (0)
- Lars Vilks (0)
- Will Smith (1)
- Spear of Longinus (1)
- Spear of Destiny (1)
- Adolf Hilter (1)
- Seven Pounds (1)
- Hellblazer (1)
- Neo Paganism (2)
- Phillip Johnson (1)
- John Mark Reynolds (1)
- Against All Gods: What's Right and Wrong About the New Atheism (1)
- antidisestablishmentarianism (1)
- Tradition (1)
- Oneness Pentecostalism (1)
- Tavis Smiley (1)
- Eric Harris (1)
- Dylan Klebold (1)
- Columbine (1)
- 2010-06-16 7:00 (0)
- Supernatural (1)
- Reaper (1)
- Lost (1)
- Roger Lewin (1)
- Paul Willis (1)
- Carl Wieland (1)
- queen (1)
- doctrine (1)
- Avatar (1)
- 3-D (1)
- synthetic life (1)
- Craig Venter (1)
- Maiolatry (1)
- Peter (1)
- illuminati (0)
- Moishe Rosen (1)
- Messianic Jew (1)
- Jews for Jesus (2)
- The Rise of Atheism (0)
- Global Atheist Convention (0)
- triune (1)
- Barry Lynn (0)
- God’s Own Party? (0)
- Talk to Action (2)
- Theocracy Watch (2)
- Americans United for Separation of Church and State (2)
- ACLU (2)
- American Civil Liberties Union (2)
- Council of Trent (1)
- Apparitions (1)
- Anne Frank (1)
- Helen Thomas (1)
- William Long (1)
- William F. Harrison (1)
- Stephen Tyrone Johns (1)
- Scott P. Roeder (1)
- George Tiller (1)
- Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad (1)
- The Invention of Atheism (0)
- wife beating (1)
- spousal abuse (1)
- Jackie Chan (0)
- Karate Kid (0)
- Kill Bill (0)
- On Guard: Defending Your Faith with Reason and Precision (0)
- Peter Atkins (0)
- Lee Stroble (2)
- case for Christianity (0)
- Rhodes (0)
- Eric Buehrer (1)
- church and state (1)
- star of david (1)
- magen david (1)
- Global Warming (1)
- Climate Change (1)
- Greg Koukl - Common New Atheist Fallacies (1)
- Norman Geisler (3)
- True Blood (1)
- Sookie Stackhouse (1)
- Charlaine Harris (1)
- Suing the Devil (1)
- Why Does God Hate Amputees? (2)
- Job (1)
- Ben Witherington (1)
- The Trouble With Atheism (1)
- Rod Liddle (1)
- Rita De Alverez (0)
- The Long Journey of My De-Conversionatheism (0)
- Tree of Life (0)
- garden of eden (0)
- Hail Mary (2)
- Dogmatheism (1)
- ECKANKAR (1)
- Norman L. Geisler (0)
- I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist (0)
- Norm Geisler (2)
- Ian S. Markham (0)
- and Harris Are Fundamentally Wrong (0)
- Hitchens (0)
- Against Atheism: Why Dawkins (0)
- Steven Weinberg (2)
- mother of god (2)
- The Wedgie Document (1)
- George Francis (0)
- Craig James (0)
- JP Moreland (1)
- James Porter Moreland (1)
- The Making of an Atheist: How Immorality Leads to Unbelief (1)
- James S. Spiegel (1)
- Dinesh D′Souza (0)
- Believe It or Not (0)
- David Hart (0)
- Kerrigan Skelly (0)
- Erik Dickerson (0)
- Charlotte Atheists & Agnostics (0)
- Atheist billboard (0)
- Frank Turek (0)
- Roman Catholic Church (0)
- Militant Religious Fundamentalism (0)
- Terrorism And Militant Religious Fundamentalism (0)
- Michael Servetus (0)
- itheist (0)
- itheism (0)
- Zeitgeist (0)
- Forgiveness (0)
- no god no problem (0)
- millions are good without God (0)
- Please Don’t Label Me A (0)
- sinless (1)
- Non-Believers Giving Aid (1)
- Haiti (1)
- infinity (1)
- John Ankerberg (1)
- D. James Kennedy (1)
- Tim Callahan (1)
- Pagan Jesus (1)
- Gary Habermas (1)
- Deepak Chopra (2)
- Who made God? (1)
- Who designed the designer? (1)
- Who created God? (1)
- Ken Humphreys (0)
- virgin (2)
- Memphis Freethought Alliance (1)
- Psychology Today (2)
- Austin Dacey (3)
- textual criticism (0)
- variants (0)
- manuscripts (2)
- Constitution (0)
- The Search for Jesus (1)
- Peter Jennings (1)
- myths (1)
- Steven Crowder (1)
- PJTV (1)
- Louder with Crowder (1)
- Galileo Galilei (2)
- Johannes Kepler (1)
- Paul Copan (3)
- Contending with Christianity's Critics (1)
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (1)
- thoth (9)
- Melchizedek Method (10)
- Skeptic’s Annotated Bible (1)
- Edwin Kagin (0)
- de-baptism (0)
- SMRT (1)
- Rational Thought (1)
- Michael De Dora (1)
- Queen of Heaven (1)
- Michael Brown (1)
- Does the Bible Provide an Adequate Answer to the Problem of Suffering? (1)
- Ken Hovind (0)
- YEC (0)
- faith (0)
- Mediator (0)
- Intercessor (0)
- Advocate (0)
- Has Christianity Failed You? (1)
- StatGuy (1)
- Journal of Religion and Society (1)
- Ronald Nash (0)
- evidentalism (0)
- John Blanchard (0)
- Where Do We Go from Here? (0)
- David Berlinski (0)
- Co-Redeemer (1)
- Pagan (3)
- neo-pagan (2)
- Greg Koukl (5)
- Anne Rice (0)
- Savior (1)
- video (6)
- Matt Slick (2)
- David Wood (2)
- Apologetics 315 (1)
- Free Republic (2)
- James Patrick Holding (0)
- JP Holding (0)
- Blowing the Doors Off! (0)
- dogma (3)
- The Office (2)
- St. Montfort (1)
- Dennis McKinsey (0)
- Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy (0)
- Hamza Abdul Malik (0)
- deabte (0)
- Lourdes (2)
- Guadalupe (3)
- Madalyn Murray O'Hair (1)
- Philip Pullman (2)
- Archbishop of Canterbury (1)
- 2010-08-20 15:00 (0)
- Science & Its Limits: The Natural Sciences in Christian Perspective (1)
- Del Ratzsch (1)






Correction
Bill Powell (not verified) — Thu, 05/06/2010 - 9:53amSorry, that should be "the fire is not extinguished."
The Bible does explicitly mention torture
Bill (not verified) — Thu, 05/06/2010 - 9:52amGood article -- especially about the secular fear of annihilation. But I'm not sure you're right about the Bible never suggesting hell is a place of torture. How about "Where the worm dieth not, and the fire extinguished"? That sounds like torture to me, and Jesus says this three times in Mark 9. Or how about the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, where the rich man is burning and begs for a drop of water, and doesn't get it?
Granted, I tend to take the view you'll find, among other places, in Lewis' Great Divorce, that these images of torture are used to help us visualize the torment -- that the torment is the real pain. It's all very well to say that losing God is the "worst possible pain," but most of us have a much easier time grasping burning and immortal worms.
Still, I don't think there's any denying that the Bible does suggest that sinners are physically tortured in hell. Perhaps we need to understand this better than we do, but the suggestion is clear.