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Apologetics Examiner

  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 5
  • Simplicity and complexity: Darwinism vs. Creationism & Intelligent Design, #3
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 4
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 3
  • Simplicity and complexity: Darwinism vs. Creationism & Intelligent Design, #2
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 2
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 2
  • Simplicity and complexity: Darwinism vs. Creationism & Intelligent Design, #1
  • “Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really Think”
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 1
more

Fitness, Exercise, Bodybuilding, Weightlifting and Workouts

  • Product review: Lily of the Desert – healthy aloe based drinks
  • Product review: Lily of the Desert – healthy aloe based drinks
  • Product review: Rabbit Creek Gourmet - all natural fruit and nut granola mix
  • Product review: Rabbit Creek Gourmet - all natural fruit and nut granola mix
  • Product review: Snack Warehouse - Beanitos corn-free bean chips
more

Book navigation

  • "Beyond Interfaith" - The Eshim Sham Shimmy, part 1 of 5
  • "Professing Themselves To Be Wise, They Became Fools", (5 Part Series)
  • "The Lost Tomb of Jesus", part 1 of 10
  • About.com, Austin Cline, Adolf Hitler and the Continued Promulgation of Nazi Propaganda, part 1
  • Accurately Quoting Bart Ehrman, part 1
  • Adolf Hitler Was a Christian! Was Adolf Hitler a Christian?, part 1
  • Another “debate” on morality with an atheist, part 1 of 4
  • Answering Atheism - audio, page 1 of 3
  • Are Atheists Healthy, Happy, Moral, etc.?
  • Atheism - The New (Emergent) Atheists, part 1 of 4
  • Atheism and Carl Sagan's God, part 1 of 2
  • Atheism and Creation Ministries International - Preparatoria
  • Atheism and Science - Is There a Relation?, part 1
  • Atheist and Darwinian Science and Story Telling, part 1 of 9
  • Atheists claim that “the Old Testament still applies”
  • Austin Dacey and the Psychology Today Sell Out – On Ethics, Bus Ads and Atheism, part 1
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith : Physical Resurrection, Part 1 of 2
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith: "Baha'i Propaganda in America", part 1 of 5
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith: The Case of the Traveller, Part 1 of 3
  • Bart Ehrman, Interrupted - on the Bible and Christianity
  • Bart Ehrman’s Millions and Millions of Variants, part 1 of 2
  • Bart Ehrman’s Problem, part 1
  • Cat Stevens / Yusuf Islam, Salman Rushdie and the Satanic Verses fatwa, part 1
  • Christopher Hitchens - Night at the Royal Ontario Museum
  • Christopher Hitchens - Theological Fallacies and Miscomprehensions, part I of III
  • Christopher Hitchens : The Challenges, part I of III
  • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 1 of 14
  • Dan Barker and Bertrand Russell: The Dynamic Duo of Demonstrably Deleterious Delusion (8 Part Series)
  • Dan Barker and Neo-Pagan Atheism
  • Dan Brown - The Da Vinci Code, part 1 of 4 : Thank God for "The Da Vinci Code" !!!
  • Darwin's Dilemma
  • Debate: "The Bodily Assumption of Mary" Robert Sungenis vs. James White
  • Dialogue on the Resurrected Body, part 1
  • Does the Bible and its God Condone Slavery?
  • ECKANKAR, Religion of the Light and Sound of God, part 1
  • ExChristian.Net Has Been X’d, part 1
  • Freethought Without Forethought? (8 Part Series)
  • Friedrich Nietzsche Nails Atheism, Again
  • From Zeitgeist to Poltergeist, Part 1 of 13
  • Fundamentalist Theologian Asks: “Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?” and “Why Does God Hate Amputees?”
  • God Took Human Form (Before the Time of Jesus), part 1 of 5
  • Gospel of Judas, part 1 of 7 : Introductory Musings
  • Hinduism / Hare Krishna / Krishna Consciousness, part 1 of 10
  • Homosexuality, Christianity, the Bible, Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford, part 1
  • How Billions of Demons Haunted Baloney While Avoiding Detection
  • How Many of What Did Jesus Ride Into Jerusalem? On Colts, Donkey and Asses, part 1 of 2
  • In the Beginning...Cosmology, Part I - The Pre Big Bang Scenario
  • Inhumane Humanism – Atheist Propaganda Thinly Disguised, part 1
  • Is Dan Barker Self Loathing?, part 1 of 2
  • Is PZ Myers establishing a church? Behold his new “wonderful revelation,” part 1 of 2
  • Is Richard Dawkins a Fundamentalist? (9 Part Series)
  • Is the Bible Skeptical About Miracles?
  • Islam / Muslim : Muhammad and Jesus, part 1 of 10
  • James Randi - the Amazing Atheist, part 1 of 2
  • Jehovah's Witnesses and the Physical Resurrection - Objections and Responses, part 1 of 2
  • Jewish / Judaism : One Messiah or Two Messiahs?, part 1 of 2
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Suffering of the Servant, part 1 of 7
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Suffering Servant According to Isaiah, part 1
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Truth is Veiled - For a Time, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : When Was the Messiah Expected?, part 1 of 7
  • Jewish / Judaism : Will the Messiah Institute New Commandments?, part 1 of 7
  • Jurassic Ark
  • Mark Miravalle on Mariology (or is it, Maryolarty?), part 1
  • Michael Ruse – “God is dead. Long live morality” (even though “Morality is flimflam”), part 1 of 2
  • Midwest Atheist and Friend - Considered and Refuted, part 1 of 3
  • New Age : The Melchizedek Method, part 1 of 10
  • New Atheism - Further Evidence of Its Deleterious Effects, part 1 of 2
  • On the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorns, et al., part 1 of 4
  • On the Treatment of Images, part I of II
  • Positive Atheism - Cliff Walker : Relative Ethics and Absolute Condemnations, part 1 of 9
  • Positive Atheism - Cliff Walker : Weak Bible Week Poster, part 1 of 7
  • PZ Myers – Contra Mitch Daniels and Pro Positive Affirmation of God’s Non-Existence, part 1 of 2
  • Quentin Smith - The Gratuitous Fallacy, part I of V
  • Religious Science - Science of Mind - Ernest Holmes, part 1 of 13
  • Response to Christopher Hitchens “The New Commandments” in Vanity Fair, part 1
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 1 of 21
  • Review of John Loftus, “Why I Rejected Christianity: A Former Apologist Explains”, part 1 of 2
  • Richard Dawkins - Children in the Atheist's Den (8 Part Series)
  • Richard Dawkins : Planting God More Firmly on His Throne (10 Part Series)
  • Richard Dawkins Rules Out Abiogenesis, part 1 of 2
  • Richard Dawkins' New Book - The Evolution Delusion
  • Roman Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory, part 1—An Introduction
  • Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Eucharist, part 1—Introduction
  • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 1 - Introduction
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 18 - Whence Come These Dogmas?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 22 - The Consulted Bibles and the Official Approval
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 10 - Sinless?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 11 - Eternally a Virgin?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 12 - Assumed Into Heaven?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 13 - Coronation in Heaven?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 14 - Queen of Heaven?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 15 - Intercessor? Mediator? Advocate?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 16 - Co-Redeemer?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 17 - Savior?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 19 - St. Montfort
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 2 - Everything the Bible Says About Mary
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 20 - Examples of Extreme Deception
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 21 - “The Fatima Crusader”
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 3 - A Review of Marian Dogma and Apparition Chronology
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 4 - How Important is Mary?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 5 - To Jesus Through Mary
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 6 - Mary, Full of Grace?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 7 - Mother of God?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 8 - Immaculately Conceived?
    • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 9 - Will She “Crush Your Head”?
  • Roman Catholicism and the Bible - Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia, part 1 of 3
  • Roman Catholicism – Was Peter the Rock? Was Peter the First Pope?
  • Sam Harris - Myth Buster or Myth Maker? (10 Part Series)
  • Sam Harris “The Moral Landscape” aka “The End of Morality”, part 1 of 2
  • Sam Harris: Instigator At Large
  • Sam Harris: Let Him Who is Without Faith Cast the First Stone
  • Sam Harris: Mythunderstandings (7 Part Series)
  • Scientific Cenobites, part 1 of 9
  • The BOBA Digest
  • The Destroyed Bible – On How to Reconstruct the Bible, part 1
  • The Mad Pagan Skeptic, part 1
  • The Massimo Pigliucci vs. PZ Myers Fracas (with a little Michael De Dora thrown in), part 1
  • The Quadripartite Equine Riders, part 1 of 11
  • The Rape of Skepticism, part 1
  • Theology at the Movies, in Books and on Television, part 1 of 2
  • Trinity : God's Nature and Trinitarian Doctrine
  • Was Timothy McVeigh a God Believing Catholic and a "Christian Terrorists"? - Part 1 of Dan Barker and the Alien Rape Voyeurs
  • Was “the Problem of Evil” Solved Before it was Ever Proposed?, part 1 of 2
  • What Michael Shermer Wants, and Does Not Want, to Believe—on Pseudo-Skepticism and the Multiverse, part 1
  • Which Jesus?, Part 1 - Introduction
  • Why Freethought? (8 Part Series)
  • Will Richard Dawkins Debate Stephen Meyer?, part 1
  • William Lane Craig – South Africa Debates, part 1: vs. Yusuf Islam on “Identifying Jesus: Is He Man or both God and Man?”
  • “Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible,” part 1 of 3
  • “Signature in the Cell,” “Signature of Controversy” and the Signature of Pseudo-Scientific Sloth, part 1
  • “The Fatima Crusader” : True vs. Counterfeit Miracles
  • “The Jews” in the New Testament, part 1 of 4
  • Christopher Hitchens and Daniel Dennett The Dynamic Duo of Demonstrably Deleterious Delusion, part 1 of 3
  • Oprah Winfrey - Priestess of Spirituality and Preacher of Strict Exclusivism, part 1
  • Rise of Atheism in America While the Amish Survive Only By Kidnapping Little Children, part 1 of 4
  • Scientific Cenobites - Some notes on Skepticism, part 1 of 6
  • The Godless Church of Unitarian Universalism, part 1 of 2
  • Unitarian Universalist - Condolences and Critiques, part 1 of 6
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Messiah Will Be "The LORD", part 1 of 3
  • Jewish / Judaism : Jewish and Christian? Is Messianic Judaism Possible?, part 1 of 3
  • Jewish / Judaism : Biblical Messianic Symbolism, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : Proselytism, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : Reinterpretation of Ancient Teachings, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Isaiah 9 Controversy, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : the Psalm 22 Controversy, part 1 of 4
  • Evilbible - the Polemical Saga Continues, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : Does Christianity Corrupt the Old Testament? And: On the Memra, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : Jewish Messianic Concepts, part 1 of 5
  • Atheism, EvilBible.com, "Theists Suck" and Christians are Hypocrites, part 1 of 6
  • Atheism, Ritual Human Sacrifice in the Bible, and EvilBible.com, part 1 of 5
  • Atheism, the Bible, Rape, EvilBible.com and Dan Barker, part 1 of 6

Sample clip of my debate with an
atheist on the issue of morality.
Find the whole debate at this link

Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 15 - Intercessor? Mediator? Advocate?

At a glance:
The Bible teaches that there is only one intercessor. Or does it? Can we not intercede for each other and cannot our dead relatives and dead saints intercede for us? We living people, intercede for each other in the name of Jesus, which makes Him the intercessor. We are not to communicate with the dead and so if they are interceding for us we appreciate it (although the Bible does not tell us) but we are not to pray to the dead, but to God only.
Any text that is appealed to by Roman Catholicism in order to back up their belief in Mary’s role as intercessor have one thing in common: they have absolutely nothing to do with the dispensation of grace. After all, “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness nor shadow of turning” (James 1:17).

What Saith the Bible?:
After seeing what the Bible states on this matter we will explore some of the reasons that the Bible is disregarded on this issue.

“Tell him this is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and He will branch out from His place and build the temple of the LORD. It is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He will be clothed with majesty and will sit and rule on his throne. And He will be a priest on his throne” (Zechariah 6:12-13).

“the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will…Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us” (Romans 8:26-27, 34).

“For through Him [Jesus] we both have access to the Father by one Spirit…according to His eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. In Him and through faith in Him we may approach God with freedom and confidence…Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ” (Ephesians 2:18, 3:12, 5:19-21).

“And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him” (Colossians 3:17).

“Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them…But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises…He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance…For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence…Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant” (Hebrews 7:24-25; 8:6; 9:15, 24; 12:24).

“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1st Timothy 2:5).

“My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1st John 2:1).

What Saith Roman Catholicism?:
The Catholic Catechism #966, quoting Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th, addressed to Mary, “by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.’”

The Catholic Catechism #969 states, “Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation...Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix [LG 62].”

Venerable Mary of Agreda wrote, “Words of the Queen [Mary]...men know me to be their Mother, Advocate and Protectress in heaven, ready to guide and assist them to eternal life...I may justly complain of men, that they load themselves with eternal damnation and refuse me the glory of saving their souls.”1

Anthony Wilhelm wrote, “Her faith and obedience to God’s will was total. In heaven now, she continues to totally desire God’s will, asking for whatever he wills to give to men. It is in this light that we must understand such terms as ‘spiritual mother,’ ‘mediatrix,’ ‘co-redemptrix,’ and ‘Queen.’”2

St. Alphonsus Ligouri wrote, “all graces are dispensed by Mary, and all who are saved are saved only by the means of this divine Mother; it is upon preaching Mary, and exciting all to confidence in her intercession.”3

St. Bernard wrote, “Jesus Christ is the only mediator of justice between men and God...but because men acknowledge and fear the divine Majesty, which is in him as God, for this reason it was necessary to assign us another advocate, to whom we might have recourse with less fear and more confidence, and this advocate is Mary.”4

St. Montfort wrote, “Such has been the Will of God, who has willed that we should have everything through Mary.”5

Alan Schreck; Associate Professor of theology, “The Second Vatican Council emphasized that Jesus remains the one mediator between God and man (I Tm 2:5). Mary’s intercession in no way obscures or diminishes the unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. For all the saving influences of the Blessed Virgin on men originate, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure…
When Mary is given such titles as ‘Mediatrix’ or ‘Coredemptress,’ extreme care must be taken to explain that Mary has only been given a share in the mediation and redemptive work of Jesus Christ. Nothing she has done or could do in herself merits or gives salvation.”6
As we have seen over and over in this series of articles, the above quote attempts a sober apologetic. Yet, the actual practice and belief in this dogma is vastly different.

Catholic Apologist Karl Keating writes, “Her status as Mediatrix of all graces exists in a double sense. First, she gave the world its Redeemer, the source of all graces and in this sense she is the channel of all graces...Second, Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces because of her intercession for us in heaven. What this means is that no grace accrues to us without her intercession. We are not to suppose that we are obligated to ask for all graces through her or that her intercession is intrinsically necessary for the application of graces. Instead, through God’s will, grace is not conferred on anyone without Mary’s cooperation.
True, scriptural proofs for this are lacking. Theologians refer to a mystical interpretation of John 19:26 (‘Woman behold thy son, son behold thy mother’), an interpretation that sees John as the representative of the human race, Mary thus becoming the spiritual mother. They note the doctrine is reasonable because it is fitting...[the dogma] is accepted, ultimately, on the authority of the Church rather than on the authority of clear scriptural references.”7
It is puzzling how someone could write as one single thought, “no grace accrues to us without her intercession. We are not to suppose that…her intercession is intrinsically necessary...grace is not conferred on anyone without Mary’s cooperation.” Well, is it or is it not?
It is interesting that when Mary is said to be the mother of all humanity and therefore, our intercessor, as proved by John 19:26-27 the only part quoted is just as above “Woman behold thy son, son behold thy mother” when just a little more context would shed a different light on the matter.
The text says, “When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, ‘Dear woman, here is your son,’ and to the disciple, ‘Here is your mother.’ From that time on, this disciple took her into his home” (John 19:26-27). The text is written in the singular about John and not in the plural about humanity. The text says, “the disciple…behold your son…the disciple…behold your mother…into his home.”

Take careful notice of the fact that in order to answer to the verse in 1st Timothy 2:5 that so clearly teaches that there is one mediator which is Jesus Christ, some Roman Catholic apologists have claimed that the word used for one does not mean one and only but rather, one but primary one without excluding another.
Yet, the text states, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” the word for one, which is the Greek heis, is used both for referring to the one God and the one mediator. Therefore, if we are to make one mediator mean primary one without excluding another then we would, by necessity, believe that the text teaches that there is one God but that this is not the one and only God but merely the primary one without excluding other gods. Moreover, Biblically there is one true God and many false gods and so we could take this a step further and say that there is one true mediator and many false mediators. Thus, a good example of a faulty apologetic.

Why not Pray to Mary and Saints?:
Alan Schreck, “The passage that calls Jesus the ‘one mediator’ (1 Tm 2:1-6), also urges all Christians to bring ‘requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving’ to God (1Tm 2:10)...[Mary] is now with the Lord, continuing to intercede for the needs of God’s people. As the Second Vatican Council stated: By her maternal love, Mary cares for the brethren of her son who still journey on earth....Therefore, the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.”8

Pope Paul VI, “in communion with Jesus Christ, ‘who continues forever and is therefore able at all times to intercede for them,’ [Heb. 7, 25.] she makes herself their Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix.’”9
It is simply a contradiction to state that “Jesus Christ…continues forever…to intercede for them” But that Mary “makes herself their Advocate” etc. If Jesus forever intercedes for us, what need is there for yet another intercessor, unless Jesus’ intercession is not sufficient in which case no mere human however blessed could stand a chance at helping us, which is the very reason Jesus came to Earth in the first place.
Elliot Miller points out:

In trying not to detract from Christ, its theologians have so defined the role of Mary as to make it entirely dispensable: everything we need we get from Christ. If that’s the case, what is the point or importance of Mary’s mediation? On the other hand, the oft-heard affirmation that Mary can influence her Son otherwise would be less disposed to do so.
In fact, the very concept of a mediator presupposes that there are differences that need to be reconciled between two parties. This leads to the inescapable conclusion that, apart from Mary’s mediation, Christ Himself would not be perfectly reconciled to us. All this seriously compromises the integrity of His high priesthood.10

John L. Stoddard writes:

Scripture certainly teaches that souls in Heaven retain their love for us, and that they are, to some extent at least, aware of what transpires here. Jesus Himself assures us that ‘joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons which need no repentence.’ He also tells us:—‘There is joy in the presence of the Angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.’...
in the Book of Revelation (viii. 3) we read of an Angel, whose duty it is to ‘offer the prayers of all saints upon the altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God.’ Moreover, in the same book (v. 8), we read of ‘golden vials full of perfume, which are the prayers of saints’…
Now the prayers of the Saints and Angels can hardly be for themselves, but must rather be for those who need their prayers,—that is, for the poor sinners in this world…Just how the Saints and Angels are made aware of our petitions need not concern us.11

Now we will see that there is a barrier of sorts that Catholic dogma has not breached except to say that it is a mystery (seeming to forget that Biblically mystery means something hidden that is now revealed, not just something unknown or unknowable).
Yes, we are told to intercede for each other and we are taught to pray in the name of Jesus, which makes Jesus the intercessor and not us. It is also true that there is indication that the dead either have some knowledge of what is going on Earth, or are aware enough of heaven to know that all is not yet as it should be.
John wrote, “I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, ‘How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?’” (Revelation 6:9-10).
However, it is extremely important to note that only living people are told to intercede and pray for each other (for other living people). There is absolutely no indication that we are to pray for the dead or ask them to intercede for us (see our article Purgatory). Catholic dogma teaches that it is acceptable and beneficial to pray to (communicate with) the dead, this is done in a prayerful state, a meditative state. God tells us that those who communicate with the dead, necromancers and spirits consulters, are an abomination to Him:

…thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee (Deuteronomy 18:9-12).

The skeptic might say that this was according to the Old Testament. According to the Old Testament the penalty for breaking the Sabbath was capital punishment so are we to kill those who do not keep the Sabbath (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday)? The New Testament specifically deals with this subject by stating “do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ” (Colossians 2:16-17).
Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, the ceremonial laws such as the strict observance of the Sabbath has been fulfilled. However, we find no indication that it is now acceptable to communicate with the dead, to ask them or to thank them for things.

Catholic apologist Tim Staples said, “In the book of Job, for example, God will not accepted the prayers of the men who are criticizing Job. He [God] asks them, ‘You pray to Job or I’m not going to hear your prayers.’ It was through the intercession of Job that these fellows had their sins forgiven.”12
Again, this proves that living people may intercede for each other, but there is not even a hint that it is appropriate to take this concept into the realm of the afterlife. In fact, we know that while King David’s son was sick he prayed for the child, but he instantly stopped once that child died (see 2nd Samuel 12:15-22).

Jesus Taught us How to Pray and Whom to Thank:
If we are Christians i.e., followers of Christ, we are to do as He did and do as He taught. Having worked at a Catholic Church for four and a half years I have seen over and over again Mass intentions offered in thanksgiving to saint and angels, these are offered for prayers answered. Out of hundreds and hundreds I can only recall two or three offered in thanksgiving to God. We are to follow Jesus and He prayed only to the Father, He thanked the Father, into the Father’s hands He committed his spirit.

“But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him” (Matthew 6:6-8).

“one of his disciples said to him, ‘Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.’ He said to them, ‘When you pray, say:’ ‘Father, [or Our Father in heaven] hallowed be your name...’” (Matthew 6:9 & Luke 11:1).

“how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!” (Matthew 7:11).

“Thanks be to God-through Jesus Christ our Lord!” (Romans 7:25).

“Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 5:19-20).

“And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him” (Colossians 3:17).

Human Opinion Teaches us Otherwise:
Rev. Ralph W. Beiting wrote, “We may, and should pray to the Saints after we have made this consecration [our ourselves to Mary]. Remember that Mary is Queen of all Saints, and that they all serve her as their loving Mistress. When we ask the Saints for a favor, we are, in reality, asking them to intercede for us with our Lady. ‘In vain,’ says Saint Bernard, ‘would a person ask other Saints for a favor, if Mary did not interpose to obtain it.’ The Saints receive all their virtues and graces by the intercession of Mary; so, when we ask them to obtain a special favor for us, we are using them as our advocates with Mary, our Queen.”13
Do we now have another step in the hierarchy? We intercede for others or ourselves by going to the saints. The saints intercede for us by going to Mary. Mary intercedes for the saints and us by going to Jesus. Jesus intercedes for Mary, the saints and us by going to the Father. Can there be a greater offense to Jesus than to refuse to come to Him, He who invited us to come to Him? The Bible encourages us to “approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need” (Hebrews 4:16).
It is also very important to consider that while Jesus is omnipresent, He rightly stated “surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age” (Matthew 28:20) and “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). We have absolutely no indication that either we, Catholic canonized saint nor Mary, become omnipresent after death and so if two people are praying to the same saint or Mary from two opposite parts of the world, to whom does the saint or Mary turn their attention?

Again, Rev. Beiting, “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for me a sinner, now and at the hour of my death. Amen.”14
At the hour of His death, Jesus called out to the Father, as should all Christians.

Pope Paul VI, “as each one of us can repeat with St. Paul: ‘The Son of God loved me and gave Himself up for me,’ [Galatians 2, 20; cf. Eph. 5, 2] so in all trust he can believe that the divine Savior has left to him also, in spiritual heritage, His Mother, with all the treasures of grace and virtues with which He had endowed her, that she may pour them over us through the influence of her powerful intercession and our willing imitation.”15

Most Rev. E. K. Lynch stated, “Spiritual writers tell us that it was the intercession of Mary that brought about the conversion of the good thief. Up to his last moments he lived in crime and sin, and even on the cross he filled up the measure of his iniquity by reproaching Jesus. What about his conversion? The prayer of Our Lady standing at the foot of the Cross won for him not only forgiveness but a place in heaven that very day.”16
Here we see another deviation from the truth and from complete devotion to Jesus. Note that, “The thief saw the vile manner in which Jesus was being treated and yet he heard Jesus say, ‘Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing’” (Luke 23:34). He saw Jesus suffering as much and more than the most wretched criminal and so while on the cross next to Jesus, one thief said to the other, “‘We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.’ Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ Jesus answered him, ‘I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise’” (Luke 23:41-43).
The thief was a witness to the love of Jesus since while Jesus was dying He took the time to comfort the repentant thief next to Him. These are the things that caused his salvation, his repentance and reliance upon Jesus. The thief did not say to Mary, “I thank thee for thine intercession,” the thief knew where his salvation came from. The text does not even imply that Mary had anything to do with it.

Sisters of St. Basil published the following Novena (a repetitive prayer), “For, if thou protect me, dear Mother, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain me the pardon of them...not even from Jesus, my judge.”17
The Scripture states, “The LORD is my shepherd…I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me” (Psalm 23:1-4).
Jesus said, “Do not be afraid…For I am with you” (Acts 18:9-10).
“For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need” (Hebrews 4:15-16).

  1. 1. Venerable Mary of Agreda, Fiscar Marison (Rev. George J. Blatter) trans., The Mystical City of God, Popular Abridgment of the Divine History and Life of the Virgin Mother of God (Rockford, IL: Tan Books and Publishers, Inc., 1978, written in 1902) Imprimatur: Edwin V. Byrne, D.D., Archbishop of Santa Fe. The 1902 edition carried the Imprimatur of His Excellency, Most Reverend H. J. Alerding Bishop of Fort Wayne. pp. 793-794
  2. 2. Anthony Wilhelm, Christ Among Us, A Modern Presentation of the Catholic Faith-Third Revised Edition (New York: Paulist Press, 1981) Nihil Obstat: Rev. Charles W. Gusmer Censor Librorum. Imprimatur: Most Rev. Peter L. Gerety, D.D. Archbishop of Newark. p. 394
  3. 3. St. Alphonsus Ligouri, The Glories of Mary (Brooklyn: The Redemptionist Fathers, 1931), p. 32
  4. 4. St. Bernard quoted by St. Alphonsus Ligouri, p. 195
  5. 5. Louise Marie Grignon de Montfort, A Treatise on the True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin (London: Burns & Oates Ltd., 1904), pp. 12-13
  6. 6. Alan Schreck; Associate Professor of theology at the Franciscan University of Steubenville in Ohio, Catholic and Christian, An Explanation of Commonly Misunderstood Catholic Beliefs (Ann Arbor, MI.: Servant Books, 1984), Nihil Obstat: Monsignor Joseph P. Malara-Censor Librorum. Imprimatur: Most Reverend Albert H. Ottenweller-Bishop of Steubenville. pp. 171-172
  7. 7. Karl Keating; Director of Catholic Answers [a Catholic apologetics organization], Catholic and Fundamentalism, The Attack on “Romanism” by “Bible Christians” (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 1988), Nihil Obstat: Rev. Msgr. Joseph Pollard, S.T.D., Censor Librorum. Imprimatur: +Most Reverend Roger Mahony, Archbishop of Los Angeles 1-28-88. pp. 278-279
  8. 8. Alan Schreck, p. 172 quoting the Second Vatican Council, “Dogmatic Constitution on the Church,” no. 62
  9. 9. His Holiness Pope Paul VI; Signum Magnum, Letter on the Blessed Virgin Mary, Promulgated on May 13, 1967 Given in Rome, at St. Peter, on the fourth of our pontificate. PAULUS PP. VI -PART I quoting Dom F. Mercenier, L’Antienne mariale grecque la plus ancienne in Le Museon 52, 1939, pp. 229-233 and dogmatic constitution Lumen Gentium, n. 62: Acta Apostolicae Sedis, 57, 1965, p. 63, quoting dogmatic constitution Lumen Gentium, n. 62: Acta Apostolicae Sedis, 57, 1965, p. 61
  10. 10. Elliot Miller, “Part Two: From Lowly Handmaid to Queen of Heaven, The Mary of Roman Catholicism,” Christian Research Journal, Fall 1990, pp. 30-31
  11. 11. John L. Stoddard, Rebuilding a Lost Faith (New York: P. J. Kenedy and Sons, nd.) Nihil Obstat: C. Schut, D.D., Censor Deutatus. Imprimatur: Edm. Can. Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasteri, Die 21 Martii, 1922. pp. 180-181
  12. 12. Quoted from a broadcast of the Bible Answer Man radio program
  13. 13. Rev. Ralph W. Beiting, Catechism on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Intending to clarify some of the more obscure parts of Saint Louis de Montfort’s work (New York: The Monfort Publications, Montfort Missionaries, nd.) Nihil Obstat: Francis J. Reine, S.T.D. Censor Librorum. Imprimatur: Paul C. Schulte, D.D. Archbishop of Indianapolis. p. 22
  14. 14. Rev. Ralph W. Beiting, p. 31
  15. 15. His Holiness Pope Paul VI; Signum Magnum, Letter on the Blessed Virgin Mary, Promulgated on May 13, 1967 Given in Rome, at St. Peter, on the fourth of our pontificate. PAULUS PP. VI -PART II: Devout Imitation of the Virtues of the Most Holy Mary
  16. 16. Most Rev. E. K. Lynch, O. Carm. Pior General of the Carmelite Order, The Scapular of Carmel (Washington: World Apostolate of Mary, AMI Press, nd) Nihil Obstat: Romae, 20 Januarii 1955, Kennetus Leahy, Censor Dep.. Imprimatur: E Vicariatu Civit, Vatic., 1 Martii 1955, Fr. Canisius van Lierde, Ep. Porphyr. Vic. Gen. Civ. Vat. p. 20
  17. 17. Sisters of St. Basil, Novena Prayers in Honor of Our Mother of Perpetual Help (Uniontown, PA: Sisters of St. Basil, 1968), p. 19, Imprimatur & Nihil Obstat
‹ Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 14 - Queen of Heaven? up Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 16 - Co-Redeemer? ›
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Pingback

Fatima: Another Gospel and False Prophecies, part 1 &laq (not verified) — Tue, 05/10/2011 - 5:21am

[...] the issue of “‘Woman’, from the cross. (John 19:26)”—see: Intercessor? Mediator? Advocate? There are certain favors, there are certain graces, that God will only give through the merits and [...]

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Mark Miravalle on Mariology (or is it, Maryolarty?), part 6 (not verified) — Thu, 04/28/2011 - 1:04am

[...] intercedes for us” (Romans 8:26-27) and “Jesus…interceding for us” (Romans 8:34)—see Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 15 – Intercessor? Mediator? Advocate? and Trinity : Who is the Mediator / Intercessor / [...]

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Pingback

Mark Miravalle on Mariology (or is it, Maryolarty?), part 2 (not verified) — Tue, 03/29/2011 - 1:01am

[...] into the Bible that which it does not state. For details regarding Mary being the mediatrix see Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 15 – Intercessor? Mediator? Advocate? and Trinity : Who is the Mediator / Intercessor / [...]

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