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Sample clip of my debate with an
atheist on the issue of morality.
Find the whole debate at this link
Rise of Atheism in America Via Children
Since there is more news on raising children as atheists we must again ask, "If raising children in a 'faith' is 'child abuse' what is raising children to be atheists; reeducation?" This is part of the rise of atheism is America.
On Sunday mornings, when many of their contemporaries are taking their seats in church pews, a group of young parents mingle…
This congregation of Triangle residents has no creed or ceremony, just a desire to get together and offer each other support for rearing children without religion. Taking their cue from a primer of the same name, they call themselves Parenting Beyond Belief.1
From the get go we must ask, "Why Sunday mornings?" Why not Sunday afternoons, evenings or nights? Why not Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday or Saturday?
Who knows? But there are many, many atheists who cannot seem to do, say or think anything with regards to atheism that is no meant to be specifically anti-theism.
The Triangle resident's creed is Parenting Beyond Belief which is in reference to Dale McGowan's book which lays out the creed which they follow in raising their children as atheists.
Not everyone in the group is an atheist. Some prefer to call themselves "freethinkers" or "humanists," or "spiritual but not religious." Some are even believers. But they share a disdain for organized religion and a desire to rear their children with the tools to think for themselves.
Here we go with the name game again: not "atheist" but "freethinkers," "humanists," "spiritual but not religious."
American Atheist's webmaster authoritatively declared,
Atheists are NOT "secular humanists", "freethinkers", "rationalists" or "ethical culturalists"…Often, people who are Atheists find it useful to masquerade behind such labels.2
Yet, Dan Barker's Freedom From Religion Foundation disagrees,
Freethinkers include atheists, agnostics and rationalists.3
But some people raising their children by Parenting Beyond Belief are "believers"; believers in what? Believers in a shared a disdain for organized religion and a desire to rear their children with the tools to think for themselves? In that case they agree with every solid Christian that I know-and with the Bible itself.
As to "spiritual but not religious"; this could mean very many things from doing whatever one wants and then looking in the mirror and saying "I'm a good person" to being again, being a solid Christian. Yet, it is noteworthy to consider the words of one time atheist C. S. Lewis:
One reason why many people find Creative Evolution [aka Life-Force philosophy] so attractive is that it gives one much of the emotional comfort of believing in God and none of the less pleasant consequences.
When you are feeling fit and the sun is shining and you do not want to believe that the whole universe is a mere mechanical dance of atoms, it is nice to be able to think of this great mysterious Force rolling on through the centuries and carrying you on its crest.
If, on the other hand, you want to do something rather shabby, the Life-Force, being only a blind force, with no morals and no mind, will never interfere with you like that troublesome God we learned about when we were children.
The Life-Force is a sort of tame God.
You can switch it on when you want, but it will not bother you.
All the thrills of religion and none of the cost.
Is the Life-Force the greatest achievement of wishful thinking the world has yet seen?4
One whose parenting skills are Beyond Belief-that is just a joke, by the way-is Todd Spiering who stated,
"We don't have to act like we have it all figured out," Spiering said. "I'm more comfortable not knowing."
While such notions are appealing and commonsensical, after all who has ever claimed to "have it all figured out" the phrase, "I'm more comfortable not knowing" strikes me as meaning "I do not want to know"-this is a science stopper.
Another atheist daddy is Bruce Harris who states,
Where I work, I'm not really out as an atheist_My boss assumes that everyone around him has some religion. It doesn't occur to him that there are atheists.
Bruce Harris is a graphics designer and I am not sure what atheism has to do with that particular field. He would do well to keep in mind the saying, "You would not be concerned about what people think of you if you only realized how seldom they do." He is an atheist and atheism is a mere lack of belief in god(s), right? Then why come out? Why look forward to the big reveal? Guess what, very likely, no one cares. I have been outed at work as a believer and people virtually lined up to give me a hard time about it (and yet, they would come to me in private to ask for prayer-makes one wonder).
Moreover, his boss assumes that everyone around him has some religion and according to Michael Newdow (contender for the world's record for most lawsuits filed) Bruce Harris is religious since atheism is a religion and there are countless influential atheists, the Alluminati, attempting to establish a one world atheist religion (as evidenced here).
Bruce Harris keep up his studies of the New Atheist catechism,
A spate of books by atheists has helped ease some of the loneliness. Best-selling books such as Christopher Hitchens' "God is Not Great" and Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion" have lent some respectability to nonbelievers, and at the least made their existence better known.
I could see how Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins have made atheist's existence better known but "have lent some respectability"? What does "some" mean? Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins and their New Atheist movement ilk are a nightmare to the friendly neighborhood atheist.
Overall, it seems that the New Atheist latest tact is to support the rise of atheism in America by the concept of get'em while they're young. This is actually an old atheist tactic but is not coming out of the closet as the hip Parenting Beyond Belief de jour and that ultimately it "might lead children to choose no religion at all" so hopes Richard Dawkins.5
- 1. Yonat Shimron, “Parents gather to nurture nonbelief,” The News and Observer
- 2. THE WEBMASTER, " Atheism - What It Is, and What It Isn't
- 3. Freedom From Religion Foundation, " What Is A Freethinker?
- 4. CS Lewis, Mere Christianity, Ch. 4 "What Lies Behind the Law
- 5. Richard Dawkins, Now Here's a Bright Idea
This essay is copyrighted by Mariano Grinbank of the website "True Free Thinker" at www.truefreethinker.com.
It may be republished in part or in its entirety on websites, blogs, or any print media for whatever purpose (in agreement or in order to criticize it) only as long as the following conditions are met:
- Give credit to Mariano Grinbank of the website "True Free Thinker" and provide the url: www.truefreethinker.com/articles/rise-atheism-america-children.
- Inform me as to where it is being reproduced via the comments section or use the Trackback url: http://www.truefreethinker/trackback/779
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Atheist Daddy, Bruce Harris Speaks
Anonymous (not verified) — Tue, 06/08/2010 - 6:44pmLooks like I'm late to the party, but since you've quoted me, I guess I'll try to address some of your comments. First, graphic design doesn't really have anything at all to do with atheism. I'm not sure why you think its mention denotes a connection, but rest assured that it was simply part of the bio. Second you seem to be confused why an atheist might consider the ramifications of outing himself as such in the workplace. Well, you're right; Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in god(s). Yet that seems to be a tremendous problem for many employers. I've led a pretty fortunate life, but I'm not immune to religious bigotry. I've seen people who were kind and jovial become cold and belligerent when they find out I don't worship a deity. I've actually witnessed the change. They see me differently, when it is they who have changed. I've seen this happen to others. Atheists are a much hated group, not because of what we are, but because of ridiculous propaganda and ignorance. In America, atheists are hated more than Muslims, but why? It's because at least Muslims worship a god. The wrong god, according to Christians, but that's somehow better than no god at all. After all, where would an atheist find moral values, right? On the other hand, consider this: As of 2006, about 6.00% of Americans believe no god or universal spirit exists. With no moral compass, one might expect atheists to be a high crime group. That would suggest that our prisons should be full of atheists. However, atheists comprise as little as 00.21% of the prison population. This means that either far fewer atheists are committing crime or that we are simply staggeringly better at it than religious people. I think the simpler answer is the former. But those figures don't seem to have much of an effect on the hate and ignorance being spread around.
I said you were right about your definition of atheism, but you're also wrong about what that means, because further on you say that atheism is a religion. Since atheism has no doctrine, and like you already said, is just a term to describe what I don't believe, how can that be a religion? It just honestly states that we don't know why some things happen and refuse to jump to the conclusion that a deity must be behind it all. For the same reason you don't believe there is a diamond the size of a Buick buried in your back yard, I don't believe in a god. It's really the same thought process. It's because I don't find it reasonable to assume such a fantastical explanation that has no evidential support. I don't believe in something for which there is no substantial proof. That's not a religion. That's simply a reasonable expectation. But if it makes you more secure about your religion, then by all means, continue to be wrong about my lack of one.
The last thing I'd like to mention is this indoctrination business. With my children, I handled religion the same way I handled Santa Clause. When my son asked if Santa were real, I ask him what he thought. I asked him questions, like, "Do you think one person could deliver all of those toys to everyone in a single night?" and he drew his own conclusion. The same thing happened with religion. He said that some kids at school were talking about god and Jesus, and if it were real. I asked him what he thought and asked questions, like, "Do you think a god would need to have himself killed just to forgive some people it was his idea to punish in the first place?" and "Do you think someone is really listening to your thoughts all the time?" I also told him that there are many many religions, and that none of them agree on which god is the real one. He has drawn his own conclusion. My daughter will likely follow the same pattern, but who knows? Now, admittedly, I've not taken them to church or read biblical verses. Nor have I indoctrinated them with anything. Now, assuming you have children of your own, can you make the same claim? Did you have a similar conversation, urging your child(/ren)to make up their own mind? Did you tell them that most people on earth believe differently than you do, and that you don't really have a factual basis as to why you chose your god over the thousands of others? Or did you extol the "virtues" of blind faith rather than lucid rationality? You should realize your fallacy in claiming atheism is using "get'em while they're young" as a tactic to increase their numbers. It's dishonest, or in the very least grossly hypocritical.
By the way, I'm not in the closet as an atheist. I did an interview, using my full name and occupation for an article in the N&O, after all. It was an open discussion printed in a paper that I knew my boss read daily, and you know what? It was kind of scary, because religion can make otherwise great people go nuts, and that's a fact. I didn't really know what to expect, and it turned out fine. Like I said, I've led a pretty fortunate life.
-Bruce "Atheism is not dead by a long shot" Harris
You don't understand any of this, do you?
Freed by Reason (not verified) — Tue, 05/18/2010 - 6:31pmAtheism is not a religion, nor does it seek to become one. Atheism is nothing but a lack of belief in a god. You hate atheists for the simple fact that they don't think like you do, and you take secular humanists such as Dawkins and Hitchens, then twist their words to suit your agenda. What they say in no way represents all atheists and agnostics, even though you seem to think so. I've got news for you. Just because you believe something doesn't mean it's true. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but your beliefs, desires, and misinterpretations do not control the world.
These parents are not trying to enforce nonbelief on their children, the way your church does with religion. Instead, they want to raise their kids to think critically, and are willing to let the children choose for themselves what they want to believe. If you can't respect someone else's right to choose their own life, then just go curl up under your pew with your precious Bible, and pray to your God that all the heretics, infidels, and nonbelievers change their ways.
"Get'em while they're young" is hardly an atheist tactic, by the way. WE don't have Sunday School, children's Bibles with all the bad parts cut out, and oversimplified straw man scientific theories shoved in our kid's faces.
I'm sorry if I come across as particularly aggressive, but your assumptions about atheists, agnostics, and free thinkers irritate me to no end. Do some research before you attack a subject you barely have a rudimentary understanding of.