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Apologetics Examiner

  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 5
  • Simplicity and complexity: Darwinism vs. Creationism & Intelligent Design, #3
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 4
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 3
  • Simplicity and complexity: Darwinism vs. Creationism & Intelligent Design, #2
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 2
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 2
  • Simplicity and complexity: Darwinism vs. Creationism & Intelligent Design, #1
  • “Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really Think”
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 1
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  • "Beyond Interfaith" - The Eshim Sham Shimmy, part 1 of 5
  • "Professing Themselves To Be Wise, They Became Fools", (5 Part Series)
  • "The Lost Tomb of Jesus", part 1 of 10
  • About.com, Austin Cline, Adolf Hitler and the Continued Promulgation of Nazi Propaganda, part 1
  • Accurately Quoting Bart Ehrman, part 1
  • Adolf Hitler Was a Christian! Was Adolf Hitler a Christian?, part 1
  • Another “debate” on morality with an atheist, part 1 of 4
  • Answering Atheism - audio, page 1 of 3
  • Are Atheists Healthy, Happy, Moral, etc.?
  • Atheism - The New (Emergent) Atheists, part 1 of 4
  • Atheism and Carl Sagan's God, part 1 of 2
  • Atheism and Creation Ministries International - Preparatoria
  • Atheism and Science - Is There a Relation?, part 1
  • Atheist and Darwinian Science and Story Telling, part 1 of 9
  • Atheists claim that “the Old Testament still applies”
  • Austin Dacey and the Psychology Today Sell Out – On Ethics, Bus Ads and Atheism, part 1
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith : Physical Resurrection, Part 1 of 2
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith: "Baha'i Propaganda in America", part 1 of 5
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith: The Case of the Traveller, Part 1 of 3
  • Bart Ehrman, Interrupted - on the Bible and Christianity
  • Bart Ehrman’s Millions and Millions of Variants, part 1 of 2
  • Bart Ehrman’s Problem, part 1
  • Cat Stevens / Yusuf Islam, Salman Rushdie and the Satanic Verses fatwa, part 1
  • Christopher Hitchens - Night at the Royal Ontario Museum
  • Christopher Hitchens - Theological Fallacies and Miscomprehensions, part I of III
  • Christopher Hitchens : The Challenges, part I of III
  • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 1 of 14
  • Dan Barker and Bertrand Russell: The Dynamic Duo of Demonstrably Deleterious Delusion (8 Part Series)
  • Dan Barker and Neo-Pagan Atheism
  • Dan Brown - The Da Vinci Code, part 1 of 4 : Thank God for "The Da Vinci Code" !!!
  • Darwin's Dilemma
  • Debate: "The Bodily Assumption of Mary" Robert Sungenis vs. James White
  • Dialogue on the Resurrected Body, part 1
  • Does the Bible and its God Condone Slavery?
  • ECKANKAR, Religion of the Light and Sound of God, part 1
  • ExChristian.Net Has Been X’d, part 1
  • Freethought Without Forethought? (8 Part Series)
  • Friedrich Nietzsche Nails Atheism, Again
  • From Zeitgeist to Poltergeist, Part 1 of 13
  • Fundamentalist Theologian Asks: “Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?” and “Why Does God Hate Amputees?”
  • God Took Human Form (Before the Time of Jesus), part 1 of 5
  • Gospel of Judas, part 1 of 7 : Introductory Musings
  • Hinduism / Hare Krishna / Krishna Consciousness, part 1 of 10
  • Homosexuality, Christianity, the Bible, Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford, part 1
  • How Billions of Demons Haunted Baloney While Avoiding Detection
  • How Many of What Did Jesus Ride Into Jerusalem? On Colts, Donkey and Asses, part 1 of 2
  • In the Beginning...Cosmology, Part I - The Pre Big Bang Scenario
  • Inhumane Humanism – Atheist Propaganda Thinly Disguised, part 1
  • Is Dan Barker Self Loathing?, part 1 of 2
  • Is PZ Myers establishing a church? Behold his new “wonderful revelation,” part 1 of 2
  • Is Richard Dawkins a Fundamentalist? (9 Part Series)
  • Is the Bible Skeptical About Miracles?
  • Islam / Muslim : Muhammad and Jesus, part 1 of 10
  • James Randi - the Amazing Atheist, part 1 of 2
  • Jehovah's Witnesses and the Physical Resurrection - Objections and Responses, part 1 of 2
  • Jewish / Judaism : One Messiah or Two Messiahs?, part 1 of 2
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Suffering of the Servant, part 1 of 7
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Suffering Servant According to Isaiah, part 1
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Truth is Veiled - For a Time, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : When Was the Messiah Expected?, part 1 of 7
  • Jewish / Judaism : Will the Messiah Institute New Commandments?, part 1 of 7
  • Jurassic Ark
  • Mark Miravalle on Mariology (or is it, Maryolarty?), part 1
  • Michael Ruse – “God is dead. Long live morality” (even though “Morality is flimflam”), part 1 of 2
  • Midwest Atheist and Friend - Considered and Refuted, part 1 of 3
  • New Age : The Melchizedek Method, part 1 of 10
  • New Atheism - Further Evidence of Its Deleterious Effects, part 1 of 2
  • On the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorns, et al., part 1 of 4
  • On the Treatment of Images, part I of II
  • Positive Atheism - Cliff Walker : Relative Ethics and Absolute Condemnations, part 1 of 9
  • Positive Atheism - Cliff Walker : Weak Bible Week Poster, part 1 of 7
  • PZ Myers – Contra Mitch Daniels and Pro Positive Affirmation of God’s Non-Existence, part 1 of 2
  • Quentin Smith - The Gratuitous Fallacy, part I of V
  • Religious Science - Science of Mind - Ernest Holmes, part 1 of 13
  • Response to Christopher Hitchens “The New Commandments” in Vanity Fair, part 1
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 1 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 10 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 11 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 12 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 13 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 14 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 15 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 16 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 17 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 18 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 19 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 2 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 20 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 21 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 3 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 4 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 5 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 6 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 7 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 8 of 21
    • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 9 of 21
  • Review of John Loftus, “Why I Rejected Christianity: A Former Apologist Explains”, part 1 of 2
  • Richard Dawkins - Children in the Atheist's Den (8 Part Series)
  • Richard Dawkins : Planting God More Firmly on His Throne (10 Part Series)
  • Richard Dawkins Rules Out Abiogenesis, part 1 of 2
  • Richard Dawkins' New Book - The Evolution Delusion
  • Roman Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory, part 1—An Introduction
  • Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Eucharist, part 1—Introduction
  • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 1 - Introduction
  • Roman Catholicism and the Bible - Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia, part 1 of 3
  • Roman Catholicism – Was Peter the Rock? Was Peter the First Pope?
  • Sam Harris - Myth Buster or Myth Maker? (10 Part Series)
  • Sam Harris “The Moral Landscape” aka “The End of Morality”, part 1 of 2
  • Sam Harris: Instigator At Large
  • Sam Harris: Let Him Who is Without Faith Cast the First Stone
  • Sam Harris: Mythunderstandings (7 Part Series)
  • Scientific Cenobites, part 1 of 9
  • The BOBA Digest
  • The Destroyed Bible – On How to Reconstruct the Bible, part 1
  • The Mad Pagan Skeptic, part 1
  • The Massimo Pigliucci vs. PZ Myers Fracas (with a little Michael De Dora thrown in), part 1
  • The Quadripartite Equine Riders, part 1 of 11
  • The Rape of Skepticism, part 1
  • Theology at the Movies, in Books and on Television, part 1 of 2
  • Trinity : God's Nature and Trinitarian Doctrine
  • Was Timothy McVeigh a God Believing Catholic and a "Christian Terrorists"? - Part 1 of Dan Barker and the Alien Rape Voyeurs
  • Was “the Problem of Evil” Solved Before it was Ever Proposed?, part 1 of 2
  • What Michael Shermer Wants, and Does Not Want, to Believe—on Pseudo-Skepticism and the Multiverse, part 1
  • Which Jesus?, Part 1 - Introduction
  • Why Freethought? (8 Part Series)
  • Will Richard Dawkins Debate Stephen Meyer?, part 1
  • William Lane Craig – South Africa Debates, part 1: vs. Yusuf Islam on “Identifying Jesus: Is He Man or both God and Man?”
  • “Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible,” part 1 of 3
  • “Signature in the Cell,” “Signature of Controversy” and the Signature of Pseudo-Scientific Sloth, part 1
  • “The Fatima Crusader” : True vs. Counterfeit Miracles
  • “The Jews” in the New Testament, part 1 of 4
  • Christopher Hitchens and Daniel Dennett The Dynamic Duo of Demonstrably Deleterious Delusion, part 1 of 3
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  • Scientific Cenobites - Some notes on Skepticism, part 1 of 6
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  • Jewish / Judaism : Jewish and Christian? Is Messianic Judaism Possible?, part 1 of 3
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  • Jewish / Judaism : The Isaiah 9 Controversy, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : the Psalm 22 Controversy, part 1 of 4
  • Evilbible - the Polemical Saga Continues, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : Does Christianity Corrupt the Old Testament? And: On the Memra, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : Jewish Messianic Concepts, part 1 of 5
  • Atheism, EvilBible.com, "Theists Suck" and Christians are Hypocrites, part 1 of 6
  • Atheism, Ritual Human Sacrifice in the Bible, and EvilBible.com, part 1 of 5
  • Atheism, the Bible, Rape, EvilBible.com and Dan Barker, part 1 of 6

Sample clip of my debate with an
atheist on the issue of morality.
Find the whole debate at this link

Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 1 of 21

This is part one of an twenty-one part essay which provides a biblical response to a publication written by Rev. Dr. Mel White that was distributed door-to-door by "Soulforce Inc." The publication is entitled "A Biblical Response to the Question People Often Ask...'How can you consider yourself a Christian when you are also gay?' What the Bible Says-and Doesn't Say-about Homosexuality."1

Twenty-one parts may seem like a lot yet, the purpose of posting it thusly is so as to make the information bite-sized and easily digested. I believe that you will find that while this parsed essay is about homosexuality it is premised upon hermeneutics. It is a lesson in being like the Bereans who checked what they were being taught against what the scripture stated and they were praised for doing so (see Acts 17:11). This is a lesson in how to think about what is being asserted and how to conduct research and discern truth from falsehood or accuracy from error.

The topics that I will cover in the entirety of these posts are as follows:

Part 1: The Premises
Part 2: Scant Mention of Homosexuality and Solomon's 1,000 Concubines?
Part 3: Bible Silent on Homosexuality
Part 4: Non-Child Baring Not Abnormal
Part 5: It's All Good…in the Beginning
Part 6: The Men of Sodom
Part 7: Galileo and Copernicus vs. Luther, Calvin and Melancthon?
Part 8: Too Literal or Not Literal Enough?
Part 9: The Holiness Code and Moral Relativism
Part 10: Did Jesus Address Homosexuality?
Part 11: To Judge or Not to Judge
Part 12: Turning the Truth of God Into a Lie
Part 13: The Fertility gods and goddesses
Part 14: Assumed That All Are Created Heterosexual?
Part 15: To Choose or Not to Choose-Impulse and Action
Part 16: When Widows Are "Ordered" to Have Intercourse
Part 17: The HIV/Aids Culture
Part 18: Homosexuals Are a "Distinct Class"
Part 19: Paul, Greek, Malaokois and Arsenokoitai
Part 20: Could You Be Wrong?
Part 21: In Conclusion

The Premises
Let us summarize the stated premises upon which Rev. Dr. Mel White has founded his statements.

"MY FIRST PREMISE: Most people have not carefully and prayerfully researched the biblical texts often used to condemn God's lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender children."

This premise is simply devoid of meaning since we are not made privy to what is meant by "most." Has he preformed some great survey of the world's 2.5 billion Christians and 14 million Jews? Perhaps many people tell Rev. Dr. Mel White, "I never knew that the Bible really meant_" But as we will see in these essays this would not be due to what the Bible really says or does not say but due to Rev. Dr. Mel White's misrepresentations, misinterpretation, misapplications and redefinitions. Keep in mind that "most" can mean 99% but "most" can also mean 51% and yet 51% is awfully close to half-we should not be impressed by an undefined appeal to "most." The point being that the first premise is a baseless generic statement the point of which appears to be to impress us with the important work that Rev. Dr. Mel White is doing in vanquishing ubiquitous ignorance.

"MY SECOND PREMISE: Historically, people's misinterpretation of the Bible has left a trail of suffering, bloodshed, and death."

While tragically sad, this is accurately qualified as a reference to "misinterpretation." This, however, does not mean that whenever the Bible condemns that for which we have a passion we ought to feel free to cry "Misinterpretation!"

"MY THIRD PREMISE: We must be open to new truth from Scripture."

While it may be true that the more we learn the more we can understand Scripture's accuracy and wisdom it is simply faulty to claim "new truth" whenever we want to justify something for which we have a passion but that the Scripture condemns.

"MY FOURTH PREMISE: The Bible is a book about God - not a book about human sexuality."

May we likewise state, "The Bible is a book about God - not a book about human relationships" and thus we now understand that we do not have to love our neighbor? Firstly, the Bible is not "a book" it is 66 books. Yes, the Bible is a set of books about God and it defines God's relationship with humanity and humanity's relationship with God and each other through God's guidance. I discuss the issue of God's concern for human sexuality in my essay Too Sexy for My Theology?. Sex affects the lives of virtually every single human being who has ever lived and has done so in very, very many ways. Sex is not at all unimportant enough to ignore as an issue since sex is greater than the individual. It is more important than mere enjoyment or procreation. God would be neglectful if He did not address sexuality in its many, many forms from joy and procreation to abuse.

"MY FIFTH PREMISE: We miss what these passages say about God when we spend so much time debating what they say about sex."


Rather, in learning what God has to say about sex and the implied human interaction we learn a great deal about God, His character and his concern for a very, very important and powerful aspect of humanity.

"MY SIXTH PREMISE: The biblical authors are silent about homosexual orientation as we know it today. They neither approve it nor condemn it."

Throughout Rev. Dr. Mel White's text you will surely notice constant qualifications. It would appear that he knows very well that the Bible condemns homosexuality and so he attempts to sidestep the obvious by referring to homosexuality "as we know it today." And how does he propose we know it today? As normal, natural and a God approved and endorsed civil right.

"MY SEVENTH PREMISE: Although the prophets, Jesus, and other biblical authors say nothing about homosexual orientation as we understand it today, they are clear about one thing: As we search for truth, we are to 'love one another.'"

Here is another wording of the qualifier "as we understand it today." I would whole heartedly agree with the statement that "As we search for truth, we are to 'love one another.'" Anyone who mistreats homosexuals for their homosexuality is hypocritically violating the manner in which Jesus dealt with the common person. After all "the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God" (James 1:20).

"MY EIGHTH PREMISE: Whatever some people believe the Bible says about homosexuality, they must not use that belief to deny homosexuals their basic civil rights. To discriminate against sexual or gender minorities is unjust and un-American."

There is also room for agreement here with the qualifier that homosexuals ought to enjoy the same civil rights and not have special privileges. However, in part 18 we will see that Rev. Dr. Mel White claims that homosexuals are "a distinct class of individuals."

Perhaps the premise which Rev. Dr. Mel White is most animated by is one that he does not list as a premise but one that is a comment which he refers to in the following statement:

"it's important to remember that in every age, people of faith are responsible for setting moral and ethical standards that honor God. But we people of faith must be very careful not to allow our own prejudices to determine what those standards should be. Instead of selecting one item from an ancient Jewish holiness code and using it to condemn sexual or gender minorities, let's talk together about setting sexual standards that please God - standards appropriate for heterosexuals and homosexuals alike, standards based on loving concern, health, and wholeness for ourselves and for others."

This statement is very telling as revealing the mindset from which Rev. Dr. Mel White addresses the issue. His assertions are precisely reverse from the biblical worldview. Rev. Dr. Mel White appears to be preaching humanism with God, the Bible and Christianity as a facade.

This is the very epitome of eisegesis since he is coming to the texts with a particular desired outcome in mind. His ultimate premise is that "people of faith are responsible for setting moral and ethical standards that honor God." Yet, the Bible teaches that it is God Himself who sets the standards and informs humanity as to what those standards are. He stated, "let's talk together about setting sexual standards that please God." Again, note the humanistic point "let's," meaning "let us," or "us human beings," set the standard. This view turns revelation on its head whereby instead of God revealing His will to humanity it is humanity that reveals its will to God, demands that God adhere to our morality de jour and besmirches any segment of humanity that disagrees.

Let us now begin our survey of Rev. Dr. Mel White's assertions. I wish to make this essay into an exercise of sorts: let us set aside our opinions-let us proceed by making what I, you, and Rev. Dr. Mel White thinks about homosexuality irrelevant and let us focus on discerning his accuracy and simply ask "Are his claims accurate or not?"

  1. 1. Rev. Dr. Mel White, A Biblical Response to the Question People Often Ask..."How can you consider yourself a Christian when you are also gay?" What the Bible Says-and Doesn't Say-about Homosexuality (Laguna Beach, CA: Soulforce Inc.), found in HTML format here
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 10 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 11 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 12 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 13 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 14 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 15 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 16 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 17 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 18 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 19 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 2 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 20 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 21 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 3 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 4 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 5 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 6 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 7 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 8 of 21
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 9 of 21
Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 10 of 21 ›
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This essay is copyrighted by Mariano Grinbank of the website "True Free Thinker" at www.truefreethinker.com.

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  • reply

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rolex (not verified) — Wed, 06/16/2010 - 9:51pm

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  • reply

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rolex (not verified) — Wed, 06/16/2010 - 9:44pm

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Snore...

Free to think (not verified) — Thu, 05/27/2010 - 1:33pm

Just more homosexual bashing.. wake me when you have something worth reading, ok?

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