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Apologetics Examiner

  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 5
  • Simplicity and complexity: Darwinism vs. Creationism & Intelligent Design, #3
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 4
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  • Simplicity and complexity: Darwinism vs. Creationism & Intelligent Design, #2
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 2
  • Sam Harris and Jerry Coyne on free will, part 2
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  • "Beyond Interfaith" - The Eshim Sham Shimmy, part 1 of 5
  • "Professing Themselves To Be Wise, They Became Fools", (5 Part Series)
  • "The Lost Tomb of Jesus", part 1 of 10
  • About.com, Austin Cline, Adolf Hitler and the Continued Promulgation of Nazi Propaganda, part 1
  • Accurately Quoting Bart Ehrman, part 1
  • Adolf Hitler Was a Christian! Was Adolf Hitler a Christian?, part 1
  • Another “debate” on morality with an atheist, part 1 of 4
  • Answering Atheism - audio, page 1 of 3
  • Are Atheists Healthy, Happy, Moral, etc.?
  • Atheism - The New (Emergent) Atheists, part 1 of 4
  • Atheism and Carl Sagan's God, part 1 of 2
  • Atheism and Creation Ministries International - Preparatoria
  • Atheism and Science - Is There a Relation?, part 1
  • Atheist and Darwinian Science and Story Telling, part 1 of 9
  • Atheists claim that “the Old Testament still applies”
  • Austin Dacey and the Psychology Today Sell Out – On Ethics, Bus Ads and Atheism, part 1
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith : Physical Resurrection, Part 1 of 2
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith: "Baha'i Propaganda in America", part 1 of 5
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith: The Case of the Traveller, Part 1 of 3
  • Bart Ehrman, Interrupted - on the Bible and Christianity
  • Bart Ehrman’s Millions and Millions of Variants, part 1 of 2
  • Bart Ehrman’s Problem, part 1
  • Cat Stevens / Yusuf Islam, Salman Rushdie and the Satanic Verses fatwa, part 1
  • Christopher Hitchens - Night at the Royal Ontario Museum
  • Christopher Hitchens - Theological Fallacies and Miscomprehensions, part I of III
  • Christopher Hitchens : The Challenges, part I of III
  • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 1 of 14
  • Dan Barker and Bertrand Russell: The Dynamic Duo of Demonstrably Deleterious Delusion (8 Part Series)
  • Dan Barker and Neo-Pagan Atheism
  • Dan Brown - The Da Vinci Code, part 1 of 4 : Thank God for "The Da Vinci Code" !!!
  • Darwin's Dilemma
  • Debate: "The Bodily Assumption of Mary" Robert Sungenis vs. James White
  • Dialogue on the Resurrected Body, part 1
  • Does the Bible and its God Condone Slavery?
  • ECKANKAR, Religion of the Light and Sound of God, part 1
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  • Freethought Without Forethought? (8 Part Series)
  • Friedrich Nietzsche Nails Atheism, Again
  • From Zeitgeist to Poltergeist, Part 1 of 13
  • Fundamentalist Theologian Asks: “Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?” and “Why Does God Hate Amputees?”
  • God Took Human Form (Before the Time of Jesus), part 1 of 5
  • Gospel of Judas, part 1 of 7 : Introductory Musings
  • Hinduism / Hare Krishna / Krishna Consciousness, part 1 of 10
  • Homosexuality, Christianity, the Bible, Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford, part 1
  • How Billions of Demons Haunted Baloney While Avoiding Detection
  • How Many of What Did Jesus Ride Into Jerusalem? On Colts, Donkey and Asses, part 1 of 2
  • In the Beginning...Cosmology, Part I - The Pre Big Bang Scenario
  • Inhumane Humanism – Atheist Propaganda Thinly Disguised, part 1
  • Is Dan Barker Self Loathing?, part 1 of 2
  • Is PZ Myers establishing a church? Behold his new “wonderful revelation,” part 1 of 2
  • Is Richard Dawkins a Fundamentalist? (9 Part Series)
  • Is the Bible Skeptical About Miracles?
  • Islam / Muslim : Muhammad and Jesus, part 1 of 10
  • James Randi - the Amazing Atheist, part 1 of 2
  • Jehovah's Witnesses and the Physical Resurrection - Objections and Responses, part 1 of 2
  • Jewish / Judaism : One Messiah or Two Messiahs?, part 1 of 2
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Suffering of the Servant, part 1 of 7
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Suffering Servant According to Isaiah, part 1
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Truth is Veiled - For a Time, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : When Was the Messiah Expected?, part 1 of 7
  • Jewish / Judaism : Will the Messiah Institute New Commandments?, part 1 of 7
  • Jurassic Ark
  • Mark Miravalle on Mariology (or is it, Maryolarty?), part 1
  • Michael Ruse – “God is dead. Long live morality” (even though “Morality is flimflam”), part 1 of 2
  • Midwest Atheist and Friend - Considered and Refuted, part 1 of 3
  • New Age : The Melchizedek Method, part 1 of 10
  • New Atheism - Further Evidence of Its Deleterious Effects, part 1 of 2
  • On the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorns, et al., part 1 of 4
  • On the Treatment of Images, part I of II
  • Positive Atheism - Cliff Walker : Relative Ethics and Absolute Condemnations, part 1 of 9
  • Positive Atheism - Cliff Walker : Weak Bible Week Poster, part 1 of 7
  • PZ Myers – Contra Mitch Daniels and Pro Positive Affirmation of God’s Non-Existence, part 1 of 2
  • Quentin Smith - The Gratuitous Fallacy, part I of V
  • Religious Science - Science of Mind - Ernest Holmes, part 1 of 13
  • Response to Christopher Hitchens “The New Commandments” in Vanity Fair, part 1
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 1 of 21
  • Review of John Loftus, “Why I Rejected Christianity: A Former Apologist Explains”, part 1 of 2
  • Richard Dawkins - Children in the Atheist's Den (8 Part Series)
  • Richard Dawkins : Planting God More Firmly on His Throne (10 Part Series)
  • Richard Dawkins Rules Out Abiogenesis, part 1 of 2
  • Richard Dawkins' New Book - The Evolution Delusion
  • Roman Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory, part 1—An Introduction
  • Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Eucharist, part 1—Introduction
  • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 1 - Introduction
  • Roman Catholicism and the Bible - Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia, part 1 of 3
  • Roman Catholicism – Was Peter the Rock? Was Peter the First Pope?
  • Sam Harris - Myth Buster or Myth Maker? (10 Part Series)
  • Sam Harris “The Moral Landscape” aka “The End of Morality”, part 1 of 2
  • Sam Harris: Instigator At Large
  • Sam Harris: Let Him Who is Without Faith Cast the First Stone
  • Sam Harris: Mythunderstandings (7 Part Series)
  • Scientific Cenobites, part 1 of 9
  • The BOBA Digest
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  • The Mad Pagan Skeptic, part 1
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  • The Quadripartite Equine Riders, part 1 of 11
  • The Rape of Skepticism, part 1
  • Theology at the Movies, in Books and on Television, part 1 of 2
  • Trinity : God's Nature and Trinitarian Doctrine
  • Was Timothy McVeigh a God Believing Catholic and a "Christian Terrorists"? - Part 1 of Dan Barker and the Alien Rape Voyeurs
  • Was “the Problem of Evil” Solved Before it was Ever Proposed?, part 1 of 2
  • What Michael Shermer Wants, and Does Not Want, to Believe—on Pseudo-Skepticism and the Multiverse, part 1
  • Which Jesus?, Part 1 - Introduction
  • Why Freethought? (8 Part Series)
  • Will Richard Dawkins Debate Stephen Meyer?, part 1
  • William Lane Craig – South Africa Debates, part 1: vs. Yusuf Islam on “Identifying Jesus: Is He Man or both God and Man?”
  • “Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible,” part 1 of 3
  • “Signature in the Cell,” “Signature of Controversy” and the Signature of Pseudo-Scientific Sloth, part 1
  • “The Fatima Crusader” : True vs. Counterfeit Miracles
  • “The Jews” in the New Testament, part 1 of 4
  • Christopher Hitchens and Daniel Dennett The Dynamic Duo of Demonstrably Deleterious Delusion, part 1 of 3
  • Oprah Winfrey - Priestess of Spirituality and Preacher of Strict Exclusivism, part 1
  • Rise of Atheism in America While the Amish Survive Only By Kidnapping Little Children, part 1 of 4
  • Scientific Cenobites - Some notes on Skepticism, part 1 of 6
  • The Godless Church of Unitarian Universalism, part 1 of 2
  • Unitarian Universalist - Condolences and Critiques, part 1 of 6
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Messiah Will Be "The LORD", part 1 of 3
  • Jewish / Judaism : Jewish and Christian? Is Messianic Judaism Possible?, part 1 of 3
  • Jewish / Judaism : Biblical Messianic Symbolism, part 1 of 4
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  • Jewish / Judaism : Reinterpretation of Ancient Teachings, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Isaiah 9 Controversy, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : the Psalm 22 Controversy, part 1 of 4
  • Evilbible - the Polemical Saga Continues, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : Does Christianity Corrupt the Old Testament? And: On the Memra, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : Jewish Messianic Concepts, part 1 of 5
  • Atheism, EvilBible.com, "Theists Suck" and Christians are Hypocrites, part 1 of 6
  • Atheism, Ritual Human Sacrifice in the Bible, and EvilBible.com, part 1 of 5
  • Atheism, the Bible, Rape, EvilBible.com and Dan Barker, part 1 of 6

Sample clip of my debate with an
atheist on the issue of morality.
Find the whole debate at this link

The New Atheists on Francis Collins - Soteriological Chain of Causation

Having considered John Horgan's review of abiogenesis theories we also considered his interview with Francis Collins. It seemed timely to further consider some, non-scientific, criticisms of Francis Collins made by various atheists.

Time and time, and time again, atheist make well within the box arguments against Christians which end up not only leaving Christians unscathed but only result in discrediting the atheist.


Sam Harris writes, "Francis Collins physical chemist, medical geneticist and head of the Human Genome Project[_]As director of the Human Genome Project, Collins participated in one of the greatest scientific achievements in human history."
Yet, he concludes, "His book, however, reveals that a stellar career in science offers no guarantee of a scientific frame of mind."
But why? Amongst the easiest targets that the New Atheists find attached to Francis Collins is his waterfall experience. Steve Paulson (in The Believer) had occasion to ask Francis Collins about this episode:


You've said you were once an obnoxious atheist. What changed you? Why did you turn to religion?

I became an atheist because as a graduate student studying quantum physics, life seemed to be reducible to second-order differential equations. Mathematics, chemistry and physics had it all. And I didn't see any need to go beyond that.
Frankly, I was at a point in my young life where it was convenient for me to not have to deal with a God. I kind of liked being in charge myself. But then I went to medical school, and I watched people who were suffering from terrible diseases.
And one of my patients, after telling me about her faith and how it supported her through her terrible heart pain, turned to me and said, What about you? What do you believe? And I stuttered and stammered and felt the color rise in my face, and said, "Well, I don't think I believe in anything."
But it suddenly seemed like a very thin answer. And that was unsettling. I was a scientist who was supposed to draw conclusions from the evidence and I realized at that moment that I'd never really looked at the evidence for and against the possibility of God.

You also write about a seminal experience you had a little later, when you were hiking in the Cascade Mountains in Washington.

Nobody gets argued all the way into becoming a believer on the sheer basis of logic and reason. That requires a leap of faith. And that leap of faith seemed very scary to me. After I had struggled with this for a couple of years, I was hiking in the Cascade Mountains on a beautiful fall afternoon.
I turned the corner and saw in front of me this frozen waterfall, a couple of hundred feet high. Actually, a waterfall that had three parts to it -- also the symbolic three in one. At that moment, I felt my resistance leave me. And it was a great sense of relief.
The next morning, in the dewy grass in the shadow of the Cascades, I fell on my knees and accepted this truth -- that God is God, that Christ is his son and that I am giving my life to that belief.


Sam Harris notes the following (in The Language of Ignorance):

Collins describes the moment that he, as a scientist, finally became convinced of the divinity of Jesus Christ:

On a beautiful fall day, as I was hiking in the Cascade Mountains the majesty and beauty of God's creation overwhelmed my resistance. As I rounded a corner and saw a beautiful and unexpected frozen waterfall, hundreds of feet high, I knew the search was over. The next morning, I knelt in the dewy grass as the sun rose and surrendered to Jesus Christ.

If this account of field research seems a little thin, don't worry a recent profile of Collins in Time magazine offers supplementary data. Here, we learn that the waterfall was frozen in three streams, which put the good doctor in mind of the Trinity It is at this point that thoughts of suicide might occur to any reader who has placed undue trust in the intellectual integrity of his fellow human beings.
One would hope that it would be immediately obvious to Collins that there is nothing about seeing a frozen waterfall (no matter how frozen) that offers the slightest corroboration of the doctrine of Christianity.

But it was not obvious to him as he knelt in the dewy grass, and it is not obvious to him now. Indeed, I fear that it will not be obvious to many of his readers.If the beauty of nature can mean that Jesus really is the son of God, then anything can mean anything the mere sighting of a waterfall appears to have been sufficient to answer all important questions of theology for Collins.

Other New Atheist have chimed in so as to demonstrate the power of group think:

Christopher Hitchens, "someone like Francis Collins admit the existence of God evidenced by observation of a frozen waterfall in the Appalachians."

PZ Myers, "If the waterfall had two parts, would he have converted to Zoroastrianism?"

Do not misunderstand; I get the appeal of belittling others based upon elbowing your buddy in the ribs whilst expressing your own cleverness. This is particularly so when you cannot help but elbowing you buddy's ribs because your buddy in packed tightly within your little box of group think.

Did Francis Collins infer the existence of God by observing a waterfall? Did he accept the Trinitarian doctrine based on the waterfalls tripartite nature? Was he convinced of the divinity of Jesus Christ at the sight of frozen H2O?

I very seriously doubt it for various reasons two being that 1) Francis Collins was an atheist who had been thinking deeply and studying issues such as God 2) there is typically (if not always) a soteriological chain of causation which at long last concludes in a dewy grass sort of event.

Interestingly enough, Francis Collins and I came to believe the way we do at the same age-27 yrs. Where I to retell what brought me to my dewy grass event is a 27 year long story. This story would include a very wide variety of events: personal experiences, logic, emotions, much musing, prayer, rejection, joy, rebellion, study, etc., etc., etc.

In fact, where I to confine myself to describing just the night of my dewy grass event, the story would include a combination of the emotions, logical syllogism, the spiritual, etc., etc., etc.

To state that Francis Collins believes in the Trinitarian God because he saw a tripartite frozen waterfall is convenient for the sake of mockery but it betrays a complete misunderstanding of what I would think is a basic human modus operandi: we do not accept anything without there being a history which lead us to the point of acceptance.

May I mock atheists who choose to reject God's very existence based on the death of a loved one? Surely, there was a chain of causation behind that decision.

May I mock Prof. Richard Dawkins because he accepted Darwinian evolution because some taught it to him? There was, in fact, a chain of causation behind that decision (see my essay The Gap Filler).

May I mock my children who believe what I tell them? Even this is based on their previous knowledge about my reliability.

And may I mock the New Atheists for concluding that Francis Collins believes as he does simply based upon a waterfall and only a waterfall? Tempting as it is, there is quite a history behind this chain of causation.

There is a chain of causation behind Francis Collins acceptance-a 27 years long chain. What confuses the New Atheists is that in their eagerness to mock, they have not bothered to find the missing links.

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