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Apologetics Examiner

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  • Athanatos Academy of Apologetics 2012 AD semester
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  • Simplicity and complexity: Darwinism vs. Creationism & Intelligent Design, #4
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Book navigation

  • "Beyond Interfaith" - The Eshim Sham Shimmy, part 1 of 5
  • "Professing Themselves To Be Wise, They Became Fools", (5 Part Series)
  • "The Lost Tomb of Jesus", part 1 of 10
  • About.com, Austin Cline, Adolf Hitler and the Continued Promulgation of Nazi Propaganda, part 1
  • Accurately Quoting Bart Ehrman, part 1
  • Adolf Hitler Was a Christian! Was Adolf Hitler a Christian?, part 1
  • Another “debate” on morality with an atheist, part 1 of 4
  • Answering Atheism - audio, page 1 of 3
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  • Atheist and Darwinian Science and Story Telling, part 1 of 9
  • Atheists claim that “the Old Testament still applies”
  • Austin Dacey and the Psychology Today Sell Out – On Ethics, Bus Ads and Atheism, part 1
  • Bahai Faith / Baha'i Faith : Physical Resurrection, Part 1 of 2
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  • Bart Ehrman, Interrupted - on the Bible and Christianity
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  • Bart Ehrman’s Problem, part 1
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  • Christopher Hitchens - Night at the Royal Ontario Museum
  • Christopher Hitchens - Theological Fallacies and Miscomprehensions, part I of III
  • Christopher Hitchens : The Challenges, part I of III
  • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 1 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 10 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 11 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 12 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 13 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 14 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 2 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 3 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 4 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 5 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 6 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 7 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 8 of 14
    • Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 9 of 14
  • Dan Barker and Bertrand Russell: The Dynamic Duo of Demonstrably Deleterious Delusion (8 Part Series)
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  • Does the Bible and its God Condone Slavery?
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  • ExChristian.Net Has Been X’d, part 1
  • Freethought Without Forethought? (8 Part Series)
  • Friedrich Nietzsche Nails Atheism, Again
  • From Zeitgeist to Poltergeist, Part 1 of 13
  • Fundamentalist Theologian Asks: “Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?” and “Why Does God Hate Amputees?”
  • God Took Human Form (Before the Time of Jesus), part 1 of 5
  • Gospel of Judas, part 1 of 7 : Introductory Musings
  • Hinduism / Hare Krishna / Krishna Consciousness, part 1 of 10
  • Homosexuality, Christianity, the Bible, Larry King, Jennifer Knapp, Ted Haggard and Bob Botsford, part 1
  • How Billions of Demons Haunted Baloney While Avoiding Detection
  • How Many of What Did Jesus Ride Into Jerusalem? On Colts, Donkey and Asses, part 1 of 2
  • In the Beginning...Cosmology, Part I - The Pre Big Bang Scenario
  • Inhumane Humanism – Atheist Propaganda Thinly Disguised, part 1
  • Is Dan Barker Self Loathing?, part 1 of 2
  • Is PZ Myers establishing a church? Behold his new “wonderful revelation,” part 1 of 2
  • Is Richard Dawkins a Fundamentalist? (9 Part Series)
  • Is the Bible Skeptical About Miracles?
  • Islam / Muslim : Muhammad and Jesus, part 1 of 10
  • James Randi - the Amazing Atheist, part 1 of 2
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  • Jewish / Judaism : The Suffering of the Servant, part 1 of 7
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Suffering Servant According to Isaiah, part 1
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Truth is Veiled - For a Time, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : When Was the Messiah Expected?, part 1 of 7
  • Jewish / Judaism : Will the Messiah Institute New Commandments?, part 1 of 7
  • Jurassic Ark
  • Mark Miravalle on Mariology (or is it, Maryolarty?), part 1
  • Michael Ruse – “God is dead. Long live morality” (even though “Morality is flimflam”), part 1 of 2
  • Midwest Atheist and Friend - Considered and Refuted, part 1 of 3
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  • On the Treatment of Images, part I of II
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  • Religious Science - Science of Mind - Ernest Holmes, part 1 of 13
  • Response to Christopher Hitchens “The New Commandments” in Vanity Fair, part 1
  • Rev. Dr. Mel White on Christian Homosexuality, part 1 of 21
  • Review of John Loftus, “Why I Rejected Christianity: A Former Apologist Explains”, part 1 of 2
  • Richard Dawkins - Children in the Atheist's Den (8 Part Series)
  • Richard Dawkins : Planting God More Firmly on His Throne (10 Part Series)
  • Richard Dawkins Rules Out Abiogenesis, part 1 of 2
  • Richard Dawkins' New Book - The Evolution Delusion
  • Roman Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory, part 1—An Introduction
  • Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Eucharist, part 1—Introduction
  • Roman Catholic Maryology: Mary in Roman Catholicism, part 1 - Introduction
  • Roman Catholicism and the Bible - Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia, part 1 of 3
  • Roman Catholicism – Was Peter the Rock? Was Peter the First Pope?
  • Sam Harris - Myth Buster or Myth Maker? (10 Part Series)
  • Sam Harris “The Moral Landscape” aka “The End of Morality”, part 1 of 2
  • Sam Harris: Instigator At Large
  • Sam Harris: Let Him Who is Without Faith Cast the First Stone
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  • Scientific Cenobites, part 1 of 9
  • The BOBA Digest
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  • The Mad Pagan Skeptic, part 1
  • The Massimo Pigliucci vs. PZ Myers Fracas (with a little Michael De Dora thrown in), part 1
  • The Quadripartite Equine Riders, part 1 of 11
  • The Rape of Skepticism, part 1
  • Theology at the Movies, in Books and on Television, part 1 of 2
  • Trinity : God's Nature and Trinitarian Doctrine
  • Was Timothy McVeigh a God Believing Catholic and a "Christian Terrorists"? - Part 1 of Dan Barker and the Alien Rape Voyeurs
  • Was “the Problem of Evil” Solved Before it was Ever Proposed?, part 1 of 2
  • What Michael Shermer Wants, and Does Not Want, to Believe—on Pseudo-Skepticism and the Multiverse, part 1
  • Which Jesus?, Part 1 - Introduction
  • Why Freethought? (8 Part Series)
  • Will Richard Dawkins Debate Stephen Meyer?, part 1
  • William Lane Craig – South Africa Debates, part 1: vs. Yusuf Islam on “Identifying Jesus: Is He Man or both God and Man?”
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  • “Signature in the Cell,” “Signature of Controversy” and the Signature of Pseudo-Scientific Sloth, part 1
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  • Jewish / Judaism : Biblical Messianic Symbolism, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : Proselytism, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : Reinterpretation of Ancient Teachings, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : The Isaiah 9 Controversy, part 1 of 4
  • Jewish / Judaism : the Psalm 22 Controversy, part 1 of 4
  • Evilbible - the Polemical Saga Continues, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : Does Christianity Corrupt the Old Testament? And: On the Memra, part 1 of 5
  • Jewish / Judaism : Jewish Messianic Concepts, part 1 of 5
  • Atheism, EvilBible.com, "Theists Suck" and Christians are Hypocrites, part 1 of 6
  • Atheism, Ritual Human Sacrifice in the Bible, and EvilBible.com, part 1 of 5
  • Atheism, the Bible, Rape, EvilBible.com and Dan Barker, part 1 of 6

Sample clip of my debate with an
atheist on the issue of morality.
Find the whole debate at this link

Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 12 of 14

"Christians Should Not Tithe-Unless..."
Dan Barker offered another answer to his own question "According to Jesus, what must you do to have eternal life?" His other answer reads thusly:

"Attend church regularly and tithe ten percent of your income to God. -Christian tithing is difficult to support biblically. In Old Testament times, when church and government were united, the tithe was the state tax, often used to support the non-working Levites (priests). But there is no consistent explanation of tithing in Hebrew scripture or in other nations. Babylonians used the tithe as a secular tax for royal purposes. In America, where state and church are separated, Christians should not tithe-unless they want to be doubly taxed! There is nothing in the New Testament to support tithing. Jesus mocked the scribes and Pharisees who tithed (Matthew 23:23). The writer of Hebrews affirmed that the tithe was to be paid to the Levites, admitting that times are different now: 'For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.' (Hebrews 7:5,12)"1

Note the confusion of his own making, he states that "According to Jesus" you must "_tithe ten percent" but then immediately states that "Christian tithing is difficult to support biblically." Which is it? Is tithing something that, according to Jesus, we must do to have eternal life or is tithing difficult to support biblically? These are the sort of problems that one concocts in seeking solely to besmirch rather than simply comprehend.

Notice the illogic behind his comment that "In America…Christians should not tithe-unless they want to be doubly taxed!" It is because the "Babylonians used the tithe as a secular tax for royal purposes." Do I understand this correctly: the Babylonians had a secular tax and America is a secular country therefore Christians are already paying a secular tithe to the government and so they should not tithe to the church-unless?

Did you wonder why Dan Barker referred to Matthew 23:23 but did not quote it? I wondered, and I do not know why but I do know that quoting the verse would have nullified what he wants you to think about it. He wrote, "Jesus mocked the scribes and Pharisees who tithed (Matthew 23:23)." But what is this supposed to mean? That "Jesus mocked the scribes and Pharisees" because they "tithed" or that "Jesus mocked the scribes and Pharisees" who, incidentally "tithed"? Let us see what the verse states:

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and you have left undone the weightier matters of the Law, judgment, mercy, and faith. You ought to have done these and not to leave the other undone."

What the verse is telling us, as opposed to what Dan Barker claims that it is telling us, is that Jesus "mocked" the scribes and Pharisees because they were merely jumping through religious hoops. They were making sure that they followed the letter of the law and paid very precise tithes of various products. Yet, when it came to their personal behavior, particularly their interactions with others, they fell far short. Mere religious observance without a demonstration in our daily lives is useless. But for the purposes of our discussion please consider the last sentence of this verse, "You ought to have done these and not to leave the other undone." Jesus did not tell them not to tithe but rather He encouraged them to not do one without the other. Of course, Dan Barker is way off here in any account since Jesus was not addressing Christians attending "church" but was addressing Jews attending the Temple and supporting its priests.

The concept of deciding for ourselves how much we give is reinforced in 2nd Corinthians 9:5-8,

"Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren to go to you ahead of time, and prepare your generous gift beforehand, which you had previously promised, that it may be ready as a matter of generosity and not as a grudging obligation. But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work."

Much may be stated regarding the New Testament concept of tithing. Certainly, there are churches that claim that a ten percent tithe is biblically mandated, something that I believe is unsupportable. I happen to attend a church that does not pass collection plates but has boxes around the property into which you can place any amount you want whenever you want. In fact, the only time that collection plates (actually, fried chicken buckets) are passed around is during community events. For instance, the Easter sunrise service takes place in the city's football stadium. When the buckets are passed around an announcement is made to the effect of: if you do not attend our church please do not give your money since this is a free service to the community and the only reason that buckets are being passed around is because some people attend this service instead of what would be the regular Sunday service.

Yet, the whole of the New Testament's statements regarding Christian tithing seems to be Acts 5:4. A husband and wife sold piece of property and they appear to have come to the apostles in order to make a public show of their generosity in claiming that they were giving away all of the money they had just made while actually keeping some for themselves. In verse 4 Peter tells them "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own authority?" When they owned it, it was theirs-to do with as their pleased and when they sold it, the money was theirs-to do with as they pleased. The problem was lying and self-aggrandizement in the process.

  1. 1. FFRF Bible Quiz, "What Do You Really Know About The Bible?
‹ Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 11 of 14 up Dan Barker - Scriptural Misinterpretations and Misapplications, part 13 of 14 ›
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